How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)

[amusingduck]

citizensm1th said:

F1GTRUeno said:

SpeckledJim said:

And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.

We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.

Which battles ARE we going to win when we're out?

It would have been nice and good pr for him to put his money where his mouth is

As it is it looks like rats leaving the sinking hms brexit

How does it look like that?

The rats were never on the ship to begin with, before or after it started "sinking".

[FiF]

Hayek said:

Ghibli said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Did you read it?

The last paragraph:

"One can say, unequivocally, that the UK could not survive as a trading nation by relying on the WTO Option. It would be an unmitigated disaster, and no responsible government should allow it. The option should be rejected."

I have been told over and over by PH team leave

Leave HQ must have another version of Brexit.

Leave HQ seems to be Richard/Peter North. What they say may or may not have much significance, I'm sure they make some good points but they also seem to go out of their way to be deliberately contrarian.

I too supported Leave HQ and to some extent what you say is correct.

Where I differ with the North duo is in several areas, mostly odd bits of detail that we need not go into now. Essentially two significant ones though. Firstly if they want their voices to be heard then, to be completely Frank, their social attitude, or more correctly anti-social attitude stinks worse than a municipal landfill site, it just turns people off.

Secondly, and perhaps more important, the basic premise for the exit plan they present is that compromise is necessary, some of those compromises being hard to swallow for some, and I do accept that what may be an acceptable compromise for me, may not be so to another. That's life, you adjust. However having made necessary compromise(s) as one of the basic tenets of their plan the Norths then refuse to accept any other way than their way exactly as being a possibility, cue heading to point 1 and getting rude, crude and insulting about it.

I still think EEA/EFTA is the best way and of course it is a sub optimal position in many ways, that was made clear from day one.

However the way the discussions have gone on here and elsewhere I'm done, many like me not prepared to put up with the twaddle spouted any longer, patience lost long ago.

[SpeckledJim]

amusingduck said:

citizensm1th said:

F1GTRUeno said:

SpeckledJim said:

And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.

We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.

Which battles ARE we going to win when we're out?

It would have been nice and good pr for him to put his money where his mouth is

As it is it looks like rats leaving the sinking hms brexit

How does it look like that?

The rats were never on the ship to begin with, before or after it started "sinking".

I'd agree. This is a brand new venture, with no 'natural' reason that it would be built anywhere in particular.

If the news had been that he was closing the engineering operations in the UK, because he can get it done better elsewhere, then I'd think that was very important, bad news.

We're no longer the 'workshop' of the world, and never will be again, but we're still one of the very best 'engineering departments', and that position should be maintainable if we do it right.

[Piha]

amusingduck said:

citizensm1th said:

F1GTRUeno said:

SpeckledJim said:

And he moved production of the vacuum cleaners to the Far East years ago, whilst we were under the magic spell of the economic miracle of the EU.

We aren't going to win some battles whether we're in the EU or not.

Which battles ARE we going to win when we're out?

It would have been nice and good pr for him to put his money where his mouth is

As it is it looks like rats leaving the sinking hms brexit

How does it look like that?

The rats were never on the ship to begin with, before or after it started "sinking".

I'm sure Dyson knew absolutely nothing whatsoever of the Singaporean governments Free Trade deal with the EU, and I'm sure it didn't help convince Dyson to invest outside the UK either......

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/singapor...

[Tuna]

Roboraver said:

Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377

Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.

Whut? You've been drinking that protectionist milk again haven't you? If the manufacture is cheaper elsewhere, do it elsewhere. It makes us richer.

It's a really simple economic lesson - you don't hold on to specific jobs, you make sure that you do jobs that make the most money. We learned that years ago when we moved low skilled labour jobs out of the country and replaced them with higher skilled jobs that generate more money. The UK car industry is pretty healthy at the moment precisely because we stopped trying to 'protect the workers' and moved on to high value work.

"Proximity to target markets".. yes, sure, Dyson is making cars in Singapore because that's conveniently close to France and the regional supply chains of Germany.

The point is that the rest of the world realised this years ago. That's why just about all of the major nations outside of the EU have been growing faster than those inside for decades. Trade is global now, and the companies that are growing are global in their outlook.

[Tuna]

Piha said:

I'm sure Dyson knew absolutely nothing whatsoever of the Singaporean governments Free Trade deal with the EU, and I'm sure it didn't help convince Dyson to invest outside the UK either......

https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/singapor...

Probably only mildly relevant - Dyson has a well established manufacturing presence in Singapore, and has been building out there for years. I don't think the Singaporean Trade deal actually makes much difference to him.

[Piha]

Tuna said:

Roboraver said:

Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377

Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.

Whut? You've been drinking that protectionist milk again haven't you? If the manufacture is cheaper elsewhere, do it elsewhere. It makes us richer.

It's a really simple economic lesson - you don't hold on to specific jobs, you make sure that you do jobs that make the most money. We learned that years ago when we moved low skilled labour jobs out of the country and replaced them with higher skilled jobs that generate more money. The UK car industry is pretty healthy at the moment precisely because we stopped trying to 'protect the workers' and moved on to high value work.

"Proximity to target markets".. yes, sure, Dyson is making cars in Singapore because that's conveniently close to France and the regional supply chains of Germany.

The point is that the rest of the world realised this years ago. That's why just about all of the major nations outside of the EU have been growing faster than those inside for decades. Trade is global now, and the companies that are growing are global in their outlook.

As you rightly point out that we don't need "low skilled jobs" and Singapore must need low skilled jobs to help with their GDP.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

And obviously Singapore is an auto manufacturing global titan and it will be so very easy for James "Brexit" Dyson to set his new low skilled manufacturing plant up there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_...

Apologies for the Wiki links.......

[alfie2244]

citizensm1th said:

It would have been nice and good pr for him to put his money where his mouth is

He does...goggle Dyson ctre RUH, Bath.

[psi310398]

Tuna said:

Am I right to understand that Nick's expertise is in property, and yours is in actual government tendering?

I can’t speak for Nick but I believe that’s his background. And, yes, I have spent my career doing (and rescuing / restructuring) large complex projects for government.

[gooner1]

Piha said:

As you rightly point out that we don't need "low skilled jobs" and Singapore must need low skilled jobs to help with their GDP.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

And obviously Singapore is an auto manufacturing global titan and it will be so very easy for James "Brexit" Dyson to set his new low skilled manufacturing plant up there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_...

Apologies for the Wiki links.......

As someone has already pointed on another thread, isn't James "Brexit " Dyson practising
exactly what he preaches by dealing outside of the EU?

[Mrr T]

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

So you now have a document with UK and Canada named but only signed by the UK. You do understand that’s not an FTA with Canada. You need one more thing, can you guess what it is?.

[Piha]

gooner1 said:

Piha said:

As you rightly point out that we don't need "low skilled jobs" and Singapore must need low skilled jobs to help with their GDP.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

And obviously Singapore is an auto manufacturing global titan and it will be so very easy for James "Brexit" Dyson to set his new low skilled manufacturing plant up there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_...

Apologies for the Wiki links.......

As someone has already pointed on another thread, isn't James "Brexit " Dyson practising
exactly what he preaches by dealing outside of the EU?

And in doing so, he is investing in a wealthy country that is moving closer to the EU.

And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!

The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.

Blue passports though (Made in France mind).

[PurpleMoonlight]

Mrr T said:

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

So you now have a document with UK and Canada named but only signed by the UK. You do understand that’s not an FTA with Canada. You need one more thing, can you guess what it is?.

Isn't he claiming that's how the UK gets its FTA with the EU?

[Gecko1978]

Roboraver said:

Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377

Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.

Brexit had nothing to do with it as the article states

[Piha]

Gecko1978 said:

Roboraver said:

Lololol Dyson nothing more to say.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45950377

Hmmm, availability of talent, regional supply chains and proximity to target markets...all make the UK unattractive after Brexit.

Brexit had nothing to do with it as the article states

Nope.....nothing.......zip.......zilch

Nothing to see here.....move on.... nothing at all.......

[Jazzy Jag]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Mrr T said:

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

So you now have a document with UK and Canada named but only signed by the UK. You do understand that’s not an FTA with Canada. You need one more thing, can you guess what it is?.

Isn't he claiming that's how the UK gets its FTA with the EU?

Didn't Tusk say that Canada +++ was already on the table?

[Mrr T]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Mrr T said:

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

So you now have a document with UK and Canada named but only signed by the UK. You do understand that’s not an FTA with Canada. You need one more thing, can you guess what it is?.

Isn't he claiming that's how the UK gets its FTA with the EU?

Should read more carefully!!! My error.

[don'tbesilly]

Jazzy Jag said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Mrr T said:

Jazzy Jag said:

Assuming that we are happy with the deal Canada has, the EU clearly are.

1. Take copy of Canada agreement.
2. Change every occurrence of the word Canada to UK.
3. Sign at bottom.

So you now have a document with UK and Canada named but only signed by the UK. You do understand that’s not an FTA with Canada. You need one more thing, can you guess what it is?.

Isn't he claiming that's how the UK gets its FTA with the EU?

Didn't Tusk say that Canada +++ was already on the table?

He did yes, IDS said the very same this morning.
Some must have missed it due to the distraction of the developing bromance some were engrossed in.

[don'tbesilly]

Piha said:

gooner1 said:

Piha said:

As you rightly point out that we don't need "low skilled jobs" and Singapore must need low skilled jobs to help with their GDP.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...

And obviously Singapore is an auto manufacturing global titan and it will be so very easy for James "Brexit" Dyson to set his new low skilled manufacturing plant up there!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_...

Apologies for the Wiki links.......

As someone has already pointed on another thread, isn't James "Brexit " Dyson practising
exactly what he preaches by dealing outside of the EU?

And in doing so, he is investing in a wealthy country that is moving closer to the EU.

And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!

The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.

Blue passports though (Made in France mind).

This passed you by did it:

https://www.dysonmalmesbury.co.uk/Default.aspx

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/insi...

https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/insi...

[gooner1]

Piha said:

And in doing so, he is investing in a wealthy country that is moving closer to the EU.

And obviously not investing his money in post Brexit UK. It's his money, so it's his choice but its hardly a vote of confidence in a post Brexit UK!

The UK has the supply chains already in place and car manufacturing is already a big mature industry in the UK. Therefore it would seem a good place to invest in a new car plant unless there were big unfavourable changes coming to the UK economy.

Blue passports though (Made in France mind).

Are you willing to pay more for UK made passports?
Or is it you that is afraid of foreigners, you appear to be against stuff being made abroad.