How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
PurpleMoonlight said:
dazwalsh said:
Indeed, no one has a clue what those 6 requirements are. Its a load of b
ks and he will vote anything down just because its the tories and he wants a GE
Because you were too lazy to look before posting, here you go ...ks and he will vote anything down just because its the tories and he wants a GELabour’s six tests for Brexit:
Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?
Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?
Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?
Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?
Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?
Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6209239/E...
Knowing that slimeball they would change again if thise new six tests were met, which they are not going to be as that is essentially not leaving whatsoever. Its like a kid asking for a real unicorn for christmas or he is going to burn the house down.
PurpleMoonlight said:
Reads like a list of team leave promises to me, but I guess it's all open to interpretation.
It is indeed a list of team leave promises. With a very wide interpretation of the composition of team leave. Each is cherry picked from what some leaver somewhere said at sometime. It is intended to give the Labour Party the widest possible remit to vote against any deal as each and every criterion is highly subjective and open to opinion and ‘designed’ to allow Labour to abdicate responsibility when necessary claiming that they are only judging things against the claims made by Leavers.They think it clever but it may well back them into a difficult position if and when the deal vote comes.
In the case of a ‘bad’ deal then they’ll vote it down but that may well mean that they can be held up as the true perpetrators of a no deal exit together with the DUP and a few rebelling Tories who will be under tremendous pressure not to put their job at risk come the next election. I can see the Tories deflecting blame away from themselves here.
In the case of a ‘good’ deal what will they do? It is inconceivable that any deal will meet all of the six criteria and to vote a ‘good’ deal down puts them in a very difficult position with the electorate and could conceivably see them being the architect of turning a ‘good’ deal into an obviously worse ‘no’ deal. If they vote for a ‘good’ deal that puts them in the position of endorsing the Tories as having done a thoroughly good job. Damned if the do, and damned if they don’t.
In all this I realise that ‘good’ and ‘bad’ are, themselves, subjective descriptions and will mean different things to different people but the premis still holds, I think, that Labour could find themselves in a very tricky position.
PurpleMoonlight said:
don'tbesilly said:
Reads like a list Corbyn, Starmer and Barnier have compiled, probably over tea & scones in Brussels.
Deliberately compiled to ensure failure of one or more of the list to provide a reason to vote the deal down.
Quite a few Labour MP's have said as much.
Still if the Tories can't stop the lunatic May, we can rely on Labour
Reads like a list of team leave promises to me, but I guess it's all open to interpretation.Deliberately compiled to ensure failure of one or more of the list to provide a reason to vote the deal down.
Quite a few Labour MP's have said as much.
Still if the Tories can't stop the lunatic May, we can rely on Labour
davepoth said:
Added to that the EU have suggested a "Max Fac" border in the Irish Sea; if it will work there there's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't work on the Island of Ireland, since the cross border flow there is much lower anyway.
So the EU has a choice of either agreeing to a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland as part of a withdrawal agreement, or let the UK walk out of the withdrawal agreement talks and start negotiating for a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland after the 29th of March.
Regardless of which they choose, the UK side would be "Max Fac", so the queues would be for things going into Ireland and it would be Ireland's economy which would be unnecessarily hurt by their choice.
Two problems:So the EU has a choice of either agreeing to a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland as part of a withdrawal agreement, or let the UK walk out of the withdrawal agreement talks and start negotiating for a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland after the 29th of March.
Regardless of which they choose, the UK side would be "Max Fac", so the queues would be for things going into Ireland and it would be Ireland's economy which would be unnecessarily hurt by their choice.
1. Far more goods cross the Irish border each day than cross the sea between NI and the UK.
2. Max Factor only works if both sides agree.
Mrr T said:
davepoth said:
Added to that the EU have suggested a "Max Fac" border in the Irish Sea; if it will work there there's absolutely no reason why it wouldn't work on the Island of Ireland, since the cross border flow there is much lower anyway.
So the EU has a choice of either agreeing to a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland as part of a withdrawal agreement, or let the UK walk out of the withdrawal agreement talks and start negotiating for a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland after the 29th of March.
Regardless of which they choose, the UK side would be "Max Fac", so the queues would be for things going into Ireland and it would be Ireland's economy which would be unnecessarily hurt by their choice.
Two problems:So the EU has a choice of either agreeing to a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland as part of a withdrawal agreement, or let the UK walk out of the withdrawal agreement talks and start negotiating for a "Max Fac" border on the island of Ireland after the 29th of March.
Regardless of which they choose, the UK side would be "Max Fac", so the queues would be for things going into Ireland and it would be Ireland's economy which would be unnecessarily hurt by their choice.
1. Far more goods cross the Irish border each day than cross the sea between NI and the UK.
2. Max Factor only works if both sides agree.
don'tbesilly said:
2. It's obvious why the EU don't agree, and obvious why May lacks the will and backbone to do nothing other than rollover and capitulate.
MF requires mutual recognition so will never be accepted by the EU.
TM set red lines which contradicted each other and could not be delivered in the time allowed. She also said no deal is better than a bad deal. She was lying to you. With the possibility the buffoons will result in a disorderly exit with no agreement. Which in turn will cause serious and long term effects on the economy. It does seem the EU issue will finally destroy the Tory party.
Mrr T said:
don'tbesilly said:
2. It's obvious why the EU don't agree, and obvious why May lacks the will and backbone to do nothing other than rollover and capitulate.
MF requires mutual recognition so will never be accepted by the EU.
TM set red lines which contradicted each other and could not be delivered in the time allowed. She also said no deal is better than a bad deal. She was lying to you. With the possibility the buffoons will result in a disorderly exit with no agreement. Which in turn will cause serious and long term effects on the economy. It does seem the EU issue will finally destroy the Tory party.
Repeatedly using the word/s 'buffoon/s' one of Richard North's (your mentor) favourite words doesn't make your oft illegible posts any more credible.
The one point you've made that is valid is that May lied, your right, hence the situation we find ourselves in.
I was almost tempted to start a new thread.
(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
don'tbesilly said:
A myriad of differing opinions exist to those proffered by you and have done for 2+ years.
Repeatedly using the word/s 'buffoon/s' one of Richard North's (your mentor) favourite words doesn't make your oft illegible posts any more credible.
The one point you've made that is valid is that May lied, your right, hence the situation we find ourselves in.
There maybe many opinions unfortunately to many on the leave team offer opinion which clearly contradicts facts.Repeatedly using the word/s 'buffoon/s' one of Richard North's (your mentor) favourite words doesn't make your oft illegible posts any more credible.
The one point you've made that is valid is that May lied, your right, hence the situation we find ourselves in.
As for referring to BJ, DD, JRM as buffoons. A buffoons. Is:
a ridiculous but amusing person; a clown.
I do feel the discription is reasonable.
The problem was not TM lying but those who believed the lie.
Jazzy Jag said:
I was almost tempted to start a new thread.
(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
Haha-and they say remain is project fear! (because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
Jazzy Jag said:
I was almost tempted to start a new thread.
(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
It doesn't matter what May agrees with the EU. It still has to obtain support in Parliament. That is currently very unlikely.(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
It's a pity that the desire for special treatment for Ireland/NI is going to scupper everything.
Jazzy Jag said:
I was almost tempted to start a new thread.
(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
If leave voters riot over what Brexit actually ends up being does that mean that they will be finally admitting that the politicians lied to them about Brexit.(because PH needs more Brexit threads)
If May sells us down the river and we end up with BINO, still controlled by the EU, still paying for membership etc what do you think will happen?
Riots on the streets?
General election?
Harsh words but nothing else?
Being old enough to remember the Poll tax riots and looking at the Universal credit situation brewing, coupled with tensions between Leavers and Remain, are we heading for a bit of a winter of discontent?
Edit:
Let's look at the positive side.
The Goverment can blame the will of the people
Brexit politicians that resign can blame the Goverment
Leave voters can blame remainers
And remainers will know why they didn't vote for Brexit.
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 14th October 10:45
PurpleMoonlight said:
It doesn't matter what May agrees with the EU. It still has to obtain support in Parliament. That is currently very unlikely.
It's a pity that the desire for special treatment for Ireland/NI is going to scupper everything.
Is there any deal that would be acceptable to the EU and a majority in Parliament?It's a pity that the desire for special treatment for Ireland/NI is going to scupper everything.
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