How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
B'stard Child said:
Coke and Hookers can't be bought on "Plastic" so need to get regular cash
they really can and it happens often.high end escort agencies have it all covered in the most discrete ways
the coke will come under the umbrella of an overall nightly charge and supplied by a 3rd party
soupdragon1 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
London424 said:
soupdragon1 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
soupdragon1 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
I look forward to seeing how that develops as Margret Vestager’s little campaign continues and corporation tax is harmonised.
alfie2244 said:
London424 said:
soupdragon1 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
Various shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
Ridgemont said:
soupdragon1 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
I look forward to seeing how that develops as Margret Vestager’s little campaign continues and corporation tax is harmonised.
Nickgnome said:
I understand there are about 200,000 containers which go the EU via UK roads and we take the other 300,000.
Various shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
Alternative routes will be considerably slowerVarious shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
https://www.politico.eu/article/cargo-food-product...
Nickgnome said:
I understand there are about 200,000 containers which go the EU via UK roads and we take the other 300,000.
Various shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
Probably my failing but I don't really understand most of your post sorry.Various shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
However the bit I do understand seems to be inferring that it was me that stated " Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries" hence the apparent mutual exclusivity.... for the avoidance of doubt it wasn't me.
Ridgemont said:
soupdragon1 said:
paulrockliffe said:
Varadkar is an idiot. If the UK is in such a state that it's needing to go begging for money from Ireland, how much money does he think Ireland will have to lend given the Irish economy is so dependent on the UK economy?
He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
Ireland will remain in the EU so I don't think the food supply will be as big an issue for Ireland as it would be for the UK.He'll be too busy trying to work out how he's going to get food into his country to pick up the phone to a cash strapped Hammond.
And the Irish Economy isn't as reliant on the UK to anywhere near the extent that the public seem to imagine.
Quote:
The economy of Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries.
In the global GDP per capita tables, Ireland ranks 5th of 187 in the IMF table and 6th of 175 in the World Bank ranking.
I look forward to seeing how that develops as Margret Vestager’s little campaign continues and corporation tax is harmonised.
psi310398 said:
Nickgnome said:
That’s the best you can provide. I ask again what experience have you got in relation to the size and diversity of teams required to carry out large scale negotaitions?
How do you organise and structure your Team?
I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.
Yes, but assuming it was a property/managed service deal, you'd have needed architects, QSs, service level experts, FM etc etc. You don't need that many of them in a trade deal and you certainly don't need them full time for the duration of the negotiations.How do you organise and structure your Team?
I’ll give you a clue on a relatively small scale by comparison 1bn project the team was several hundred.
Although not directly comparable there are similarities of the structure and procedure.
The DIT was set up to deal with trade going forward after the referendum vote. It's currently standing at about 3,700 or so persons. I have a feeling I read that 1,500 were overseas researching markets so in part directly due to the Brexit decision as this would have been a joint venture with the EU before.
I assume also that every part of the economy that will be covered by any future trade agreement will need to be researched and the stakeholders' opinions ascertained. Their needs will vary depending on where they trade. This simply isn't going to happen with 25 odd people and may explain in part why there are 3,700 in the DIT.
As you have worked in or for the government I'm sure you will understand why I am skeptical that the number will reduce.
Edited by Nickgnome on Wednesday 24th October 17:17
JagLover said:
Nickgnome said:
I understand there are about 200,000 containers which go the EU via UK roads and we take the other 300,000.
Various shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
Alternative routes will be considerably slowerVarious shipping companies have already geared up to take some of these directly to EU ports. Two new RoRo ships take 1300 between them per trip so about 300 ship trips.
We consider ourselves to be a knowledge economy but still transport globally.
These are not mutually exclusive.
https://www.politico.eu/article/cargo-food-product...
alfie2244 said:
Probably my failing but I don't really understand most of your post sorry.
However the bit I do understand seems to be inferring that it was me that stated " Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries" hence the apparent mutual exclusivity.... for the avoidance of doubt it wasn't me.
So it wasn't your post at 1606?However the bit I do understand seems to be inferring that it was me that stated " Ireland is a knowledge economy, focused on services into high-tech, life sciences and financial services industries" hence the apparent mutual exclusivity.... for the avoidance of doubt it wasn't me.
Nickgnome said:
Yes, I know, but not dissimilar to us sending or receiving trade globally which seems by some in here to be advocated in preference to the EU.
Well a greater focus on the rest of the world was what we voted for.My point in regard to Ireland is that they have an incentive to continue the old route as it is significantly quicker. So that makes it somewhat ironic that what seems to be making no-deal Brexit ever more likely is the Irish stance on the NI border.
Nickgnome said:
You have missed quite a few out of the development chain even at just the client end.
Although not directly comparable there are similarities of the structure and procedure.
The DIT was set up to deal with trade going forward after the referendum vote. It's currently standing at about 3,700 or so persons. I have a feeling I read that 1,500 were overseas researching markets so in part directly due to the Brexit decision as this would have been a joint venture with the EU before.
I assume also that every part of the economy that will be covered by any future trade agreement will need to be researched and the stakeholders' opinions ascertained. Their needs will vary depending on where they trade. This simply isn't going to happen with 25 odd people and may explain in part why there are 3,700 in the DIT.
As you have worked in or for the government I'm sure you will understand why I am skeptical that the number will go reduce.
I don't dispute the complexities of running a large programme but people do over-complicate things. And DIT was set up in a rush and, dare I say it, a panic. I have no idea what 3,700 people could spend all day doing at the moment even if 1500 are just researching. Although not directly comparable there are similarities of the structure and procedure.
The DIT was set up to deal with trade going forward after the referendum vote. It's currently standing at about 3,700 or so persons. I have a feeling I read that 1,500 were overseas researching markets so in part directly due to the Brexit decision as this would have been a joint venture with the EU before.
I assume also that every part of the economy that will be covered by any future trade agreement will need to be researched and the stakeholders' opinions ascertained. Their needs will vary depending on where they trade. This simply isn't going to happen with 25 odd people and may explain in part why there are 3,700 in the DIT.
As you have worked in or for the government I'm sure you will understand why I am skeptical that the number will go reduce.
Going for the perfect deal with every partner from the start would be foolish and self-defeating.
I think I'd go for as much off the shelf replication of our current stuff as possible (i.e. the status quo so far as is necessary) with only absolutely essential additional new clauses and insert instead a few clauses/timetable in each to negotiate an agreed programme of targeted sector by sector revisions the better to suit both parties over a given timeframe.
The EU agreements will have been a bugger's muddle of compromise on both sides and if we lifted and shifted the text, our counterparts would want the opportunity to re-open certain provisions as would we, but there's nothing that says it needs to be ab initio. And if, per the example given yesterday, we get the right to export maple syrup tariff free and we don't have any to export, it's hardly the end of the world.
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