How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
alfie2244 said:
Sway said:
Coolbanana said:
Leavers are embarrassed now, they can see they were wrong but will argue simpleton solutions and crazy ignorant ideals in a ridiculous attempt to save face. It is amusing to watch them degrade themselves this way. 
You're absolutely correct - I simply don't understand why I could possibly think an approach already in use across Europe and the globe could possibly have worked. I'm so stupid. So please, enlighten me and I'll follow whatever path you wish me to lead - what, exactly, is the issue with the 'simpleton solution' of a technically managed AEO preclearance style approach to the border? Idealistic, I know, but I'm just not capable of finding the flaw in it.
Please help, I'm relying on your magnanimity.
b2hbm said:
Ironically after the Remain voters insisting on a Parliamentary vote in the belief that they could scupper what they considered to be a hard brexit deal they may well find it's come back to bite them. Labour will oppose whatever TM puts forward regardless and if the DUP or enough rebels back it, then it's either back to the table with amendments or we're out with nothing. If we do leave with no deal at all, no transition, it'll be down to that "Meaningful vote" thing.
This is the big issue, and very ironic indeed, long way to go yet, and still very likely leaving with no deal.Dr Jekyll said:
Why? Do all countries that deal with the EU US or China accept whatever rules the EU decides to impose?
If you want to trade with the EU, you're going to have to accept whatever terms the EU wants to impose on you, and on which it won't budge. No likey? p
s off and trade somewhere else. So you trot off to the US and find that they've got their own set of rules. No likey? See above.
Is this really a surprise to you? Or to anyone?
When you buy a train ticket, and the nice man behind the glass says "One adult off peak single. That will be £10.80, sir, and is valid for travel after 9.30", I don't suppose you retort with "Well, I am going to pay £8, I shall travel at 8.45, and I shall be taking my wife and child with me", do you?
<Cue inevitable observations that UK PLC is not a train passenger and the EU is an EUSSR dictatorship and nothing like a train company, and some pithy observations about membership of clubs, abusive relationships and sov-rin-tee>
Perhaps you do. Reading this thread might lead one to believe that there are a lot more "special" people out there than previously thought.
psi310398 said:
Greg66 said:
You realise that if you want to trade with the EU, or the US, or China, that's an inevitable part of the package, don't you?
William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
Throwing away a thousand years of freedom to sat our own laws seems slightly more unhinged.William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
I take it you didn't listen to the radio this morning, and are simply regurgitating the Bo ("I haven't read the deal terms yet nor been briefed about them but I'm determined to set the tone of the debate nonetheless") Jo line.
Greg66 said:
Good to know that you think we've had that for the last 45 of those 1000 years. Makes one wonder what all the fuss is about.
I take it you didn't listen to the radio this morning, and are simply regurgitating the Bo ("I haven't read the deal terms yet nor been briefed about them but I'm determined to set the tone of the debate nonetheless") Jo line.
The difference is that we can currently exit and take back that freedom. The proposals (admittedly as leaked) remove that ability. I take it you didn't listen to the radio this morning, and are simply regurgitating the Bo ("I haven't read the deal terms yet nor been briefed about them but I'm determined to set the tone of the debate nonetheless") Jo line.
Greg66 said:
You realise that if you want to trade with the EU, or the US, or China, that's an inevitable part of the package, don't you?
William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
It is about trust in politicians and in the promises they make. William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
The Tories have been elected under false pretences so there should be fresh elections, regardless of whether Corbyn is elected or not.
and in respect to "rules" they usually govern standards in respect to the goods and service being exported. These regulations will affect every company, regardless of whether they are exporting to the EU.
Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 14th November 09:42
JagLover said:
Greg66 said:
You realise that if you want to trade with the EU, or the US, or China, that's an inevitable part of the package, don't you?
William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
It is about trust in politicians and in the promises they make. William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
The Tories have been elected under false pretences so there should be fresh elections, regardless of whether Corbyn is elected or not.
Writ large, for all to see.
Greg66 said:
JagLover said:
Greg66 said:
You realise that if you want to trade with the EU, or the US, or China, that's an inevitable part of the package, don't you?
William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
It is about trust in politicians and in the promises they make. William Hague was very good on R4 this morning. Sensible, reasonable, pragmatic. Shame some of the bed wetting dummy spitting vocal Tories can't be more like him. The idea that a Labour Government led by Corbyn is an acceptable price to pay in order to torpedo the current proposal (and to get something arguably a lot worse under Labour, with the bonus of Labour's economic carnage thrown in for free) is frankly unhinged.
The Tories have been elected under false pretences so there should be fresh elections, regardless of whether Corbyn is elected or not.
Writ large, for all to see.
PurpleMoonlight said:
psi310398 said:
The difference is that we can currently exit and take back that freedom. The proposals (admittedly as leaked) remove that ability.
Don't be silly, nothing is forever.Unless you are advocating ignoring international law it is forever as in the foreseeable future.
Greg66 said:
If you want to trade with the EU, you're going to have to accept whatever terms the EU wants to impose on you, and on which it won't budge. No likey? ps off and trade somewhere else.
So you trot off to the US and find that they've got their own set of rules. No likey? See above.
Is this really a surprise to you? Or to anyone?
When you buy a train ticket, and the nice man behind the glass says "One adult off peak single. That will be £10.80, sir, and is valid for travel after 9.30", I don't suppose you retort with "Well, I am going to pay £8, I shall travel at 8.45, and I shall be taking my wife and child with me", do you?
Rubbish.s off and trade somewhere else. So you trot off to the US and find that they've got their own set of rules. No likey? See above.
Is this really a surprise to you? Or to anyone?
When you buy a train ticket, and the nice man behind the glass says "One adult off peak single. That will be £10.80, sir, and is valid for travel after 9.30", I don't suppose you retort with "Well, I am going to pay £8, I shall travel at 8.45, and I shall be taking my wife and child with me", do you?
The rules only apply when you are actually trading. Do you really think the vast majority of firms in this country that don't trade with the US have to apply US regulations? Or that the firms that do trade with them have to apply the rules to products they export elsewhere? Yet firms that don't trade with the EU have to follow EU regulations. The EU have openly stated that they want to continue to apply those rules to the UK to prevent the UK becoming more competitive.
Greg66 said:
p1stonhead said:
Hell someone on here said ‘I don’t care if the economy crashes and burns, as long as we get out’
powerstroke? Sounds like the sort of idiotic tripe he'd spout. But could be any one of a numbers of True Believers, I suppose. Everything is compromise.
People are idiots to expect the EU to be perfect. It never was and never will be.
Other people are idiots to think that not being in the EU would somehow create a nirvana with better lives.
Frankly it’s all bullst.
The simple test of brexit is to ask a Brexiter what specific thing will make their lives better. Inane nonsense like “taking back control” is just absurd as people don’t know how much or how little “control” they are losing or gaining.
The country is frankly being run by morons on all sides.
People are idiots to expect the EU to be perfect. It never was and never will be.
Other people are idiots to think that not being in the EU would somehow create a nirvana with better lives.
Frankly it’s all bulls
t. The simple test of brexit is to ask a Brexiter what specific thing will make their lives better. Inane nonsense like “taking back control” is just absurd as people don’t know how much or how little “control” they are losing or gaining.
The country is frankly being run by morons on all sides.
JagLover said:
It is about trust in politicians and in the promises they make.
The Tories have been elected under false pretences so there should be fresh elections, regardless of whether Corbyn is elected or not.
and in respect to "rules" they usually govern standards in respect to the goods and service being exported. These regulations will affect every company, regardless of whether they are exporting to the EU.
I would remind you the Labour Party received equally disregarded votes it transpires.The Tories have been elected under false pretences so there should be fresh elections, regardless of whether Corbyn is elected or not.
and in respect to "rules" they usually govern standards in respect to the goods and service being exported. These regulations will affect every company, regardless of whether they are exporting to the EU.
Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 14th November 09:42
toppstuff said:
Everything is compromise.
People are idiots to expect the EU to be perfect. It never was and never will be.
Other people are idiots to think that not being in the EU would somehow create a nirvana with better lives.
Frankly it’s all bullst.
The simple test of brexit is to ask a Brexiter what specific thing will make their lives better. Inane nonsense like “taking back control” is just absurd as people don’t know how much or how little “control” they are losing or gaining.
The country is frankly being run by morons on all sides.
Here are some specific things:People are idiots to expect the EU to be perfect. It never was and never will be.
Other people are idiots to think that not being in the EU would somehow create a nirvana with better lives.
Frankly it’s all bulls
t. The simple test of brexit is to ask a Brexiter what specific thing will make their lives better. Inane nonsense like “taking back control” is just absurd as people don’t know how much or how little “control” they are losing or gaining.
The country is frankly being run by morons on all sides.
The ability to trade freely with the rest of the world is of great value. Not least as that world is growing at a much faster pace than the sclerotic EU.
Exposure of our businesses (and others') to competition allowing more innovation and value.
The ability to allow our more vulnerable members of society to feed and clothe themselves at a lower proportion of their disposable income.
The ability to allow our businesses to respond to market demands rather than responding to perverting subsidies and biased regulations.
The ability to allow immigration of people on the basis of their skills/suitability rather than nationality.
Enough to be getting on with?
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