How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Whats really bonkers is this agreement is 500 pages long, and the cabinet is expected to back it after a short time reading it whilst being prevented from taking it away to study.
Even if the cabinet go along with this, it wont take long for the details to come out and then we will probably see a lot of pressure on cabinet members to resign on the specifics, even if they agree today. Just like Chequers.
Even if the cabinet go along with this, it wont take long for the details to come out and then we will probably see a lot of pressure on cabinet members to resign on the specifics, even if they agree today. Just like Chequers.
Ghibli said:
Please explain how non EU citizens enter the UK visa free.
By entering Ireland and then crossing to Northern Ireland. It is tougher for them to then get to the UK mainland after that because it involves either a sea or an air crossing, and thus the provision of ID/passport etc being shown. But from Eire to NI (a part of the UK) has not been a problem ever since the CTA was put in place donkeys years ago.
bobbo89 said:
This thread will be on fire later! I won't be contributing at all but just sitting back and enjoying the ridiculous, smug, bitter and condescending comments from both sides. Probably wont even need to turn on the TV tonight!
Quite! as a fairly infrequent poster here, I find this thread utterly embarrassing with the general childish bickering going on. Many here are talking bovine excrement, coming in all heated with supposed facts and statements from both sides of the debate that are damn right lies at worst or disingenuous at best.
If you heard this kind of conversation between people in real life you would cringe.
EU note to member states leaked
EU said:
We should be in the best negotiation position for the future relationship. This requires the customs union as the basis of the future relationship,”
“They must align their rules but the EU will retain all the controls. They apply the same rules. UK wants a lot more from future relationship, so EU retains its leverage.”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-latest-theresa-may-plan-retain-control-eu-sabine-weyand-cabinet-a8632866.html“They must align their rules but the EU will retain all the controls. They apply the same rules. UK wants a lot more from future relationship, so EU retains its leverage.”
I do wonder if there are a few deliberate sacrificial lambs in this initial deal.
Knowing it'll be rejected at the first attempt, this iteration absorbs the resistance that's been building and allows objectors to be seen to object.
There is then time for a second bite, with some of the nucleii of contention removed or mollified, which if then rejected will make parliament look not principled but obstreperous.
Canny politics?
Knowing it'll be rejected at the first attempt, this iteration absorbs the resistance that's been building and allows objectors to be seen to object.
There is then time for a second bite, with some of the nucleii of contention removed or mollified, which if then rejected will make parliament look not principled but obstreperous.
Canny politics?
andymadmak said:
Greg66 said:
From what I can make out from the Beeb's minute by minute reporting, both the hard line Leavers and the hard line Remainers don't like and won't support this deal.
That, to me, makes it the perfect compromise.
Or it's a universally crap deal. That, to me, makes it the perfect compromise.
Most compromises between heavily entrenched opposing parties that I see are the ones that neither side is particularly happy about. They seem to take solace in the fact that the other side is pissed off at it though, and use that to rationalise signing up.
We shall see.
jsf said:
Whats really bonkers is this agreement is 500 pages long, and the cabinet is expected to back it after a short time reading it whilst being prevented from taking it away to study.
Even if the cabinet go along with this, it wont take long for the details to come out and then we will probably see a lot of pressure on cabinet members to resign on the specifics, even if they agree today. Just like Chequers.
No that's not correct.Even if the cabinet go along with this, it wont take long for the details to come out and then we will probably see a lot of pressure on cabinet members to resign on the specifics, even if they agree today. Just like Chequers.
They knew what was already agreed, it's even online for the world to see.
It's just this last bit on the backstop they need to consider now.
Whilst it may turn out that the negotiation has resulted in a poor deal, it still smacks of project fear saying that they will vote it down before they have even seen it.
This is typical of the entire negotiation process, with certain vested interests being used to diminish any negotiation position by expressing fears and doubts before the team has had chance to discuss it with the EU. Essentially, all this blabber and bluster has just loaded the EU negotiating team’s gun throughout the entire farce, and weakened our bargaining power.
We should have walked away from the table long ago. We appear desperate for any kind of deal, and therefore weak in a negotiating position, which is pointless. The blame for this (if it turns out to be) weak draft agreement does not lie solely with the negotiating team.
This is typical of the entire negotiation process, with certain vested interests being used to diminish any negotiation position by expressing fears and doubts before the team has had chance to discuss it with the EU. Essentially, all this blabber and bluster has just loaded the EU negotiating team’s gun throughout the entire farce, and weakened our bargaining power.
We should have walked away from the table long ago. We appear desperate for any kind of deal, and therefore weak in a negotiating position, which is pointless. The blame for this (if it turns out to be) weak draft agreement does not lie solely with the negotiating team.
PurpleMoonlight said:
No that's not correct.
They knew what was already agreed, it's even online for the world to see.
It's just this last bit on the backstop they need to consider now.
That's not the generally advised approach to reading the proposed signing version of a contract. Who knows what other little things have been sneaked in?They knew what was already agreed, it's even online for the world to see.
It's just this last bit on the backstop they need to consider now.
PurpleMoonlight said:
No that's not correct.
They knew what was already agreed, it's even online for the world to see.
It's just this last bit on the backstop they need to consider now.
They haven't seen the tex, until last night. Foster hasn't seen it either, neither has anyone outside the cabinet.They knew what was already agreed, it's even online for the world to see.
It's just this last bit on the backstop they need to consider now.
Show me the online text that was finalised, all of it minus the backstop changes.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff