How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
Trolleys Thank You said:
No need, just watch the news. Parliament has today taken back control by voting through Dominic Grieve's amendment. MPs can now put forward any amendments they wish after May's first vote fails next week. There's a growing cross party alliance of MPs, working to make No Deal virtually impossible.
Brexit is dead.
Normal service resumed JK Brexit is dead.
alfie2244 said:
Trolleys Thank You said:
No need, just watch the news. Parliament has today taken back control by voting through Dominic Grieve's amendment. MPs can now put forward any amendments they wish after May's first vote fails next week. There's a growing cross party alliance of MPs, working to make No Deal virtually impossible.
Brexit is dead.
Normal service resumed JK Brexit is dead.
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree - question is where were you pre referendum when all the PH undecided in NP&E could have done with your sage advice and constructive arguement
t
t! its argument BTWk you too 
hiness of your sentence, the spelling correction was just a happy extra.!!! 
Trolleys Thank You said:
alfie2244 said:
Trolleys Thank You said:
No need, just watch the news. Parliament has today taken back control by voting through Dominic Grieve's amendment. MPs can now put forward any amendments they wish after May's first vote fails next week. There's a growing cross party alliance of MPs, working to make No Deal virtually impossible.
Brexit is dead.
Normal service resumed JK Brexit is dead.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Seems like the main argument for remaining is that the EU has more economic power and will use it to bully us if we leave.
Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
The EU would not be bullying. The EU will look out for itself and it’s members. That is it’s job. Why the heck should they favour us over their members ?Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
You can’t call it bullying.
B'stard Child said:
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree - question is where were you pre referendum when all the PH undecided in NP&E could have done with your sage advice and constructive arguement
tt! its argument BTWk you too hiness of your sentence, the spelling correction was just a happy extra.!!! 
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
citizensm1th said:
B'stard Child said:
I agree - question is where were you pre referendum when all the PH undecided in NP&E could have done with your sage advice and constructive arguement
tt! its argument BTWk you too hiness of your sentence, the spelling correction was just a happy extra.!!! - I'll try to make sure it doesn't happen again - Normal service resumed and back into "only here for sts and giggles" modeI did try to format that properly but it appears my coding did not compute
toppstuff said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Seems like the main argument for remaining is that the EU has more economic power and will use it to bully us if we leave.
Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
The EU would not be bullying. The EU will look out for itself and it’s members. That is it’s job. Why the heck should they favour us over their members ?Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
You can’t call it bullying.
However where we are you can't call it leaving either
FFS stupid b
h only had to sort out one fking thing and then leave to make me happy JuanCarlosFandango said:
Seems like the main argument for remaining is that the EU has more economic power and will use it to bully us if we leave.
Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
Jeez Louise.... A couple of really easy, fDoes anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
king obvious examples:- The UK would have no car manufacturing industry. It was saved by the Japanese investing in the UK as a gateway to Europe in the 80s. Existing industry will decamp to EU within 5-10 years if the UK leaves EU.
- UK financial services - the UK's biggest export earner and one of the biggest contributors to the UK Government's coffers. It is so big because it built on its existing size to become the financial capital of the whole of Europe. Most big institutions who've wanted to trade in the EU have based themselves in London (and the UK to be fair, e.g. the massive JP Morgan presence in Bournemouth, or Amex in Brighton). That has brought HUGE employment benefits and tax revenue to the UK. Some of that has already left the UK as part of Brexit planning.
- Aerospace - the industry would be far smaller but for the UK involvement in Airbus. Who else would Wales be making wings for if we weren't integrated into the EU?
- access to labour - all the way from seasonal fruit picking to surgeons and investment bankers. Jobs that can be filled with no bureaucracy compared to work permits etc from any other country in the world.
- 45 years of bureaucratic and economic integration. Guess why we don't have any trade negotiators? The EU has been doing it for us (very well) for decades. Integrated rules for massively important things like pharma, chemicals, nuclear materials etc.
braddo said:
davey68 said:
That article doesn't dispel the fact it's an ambition of Macron it just suggest his phrasing was misquoted. It actually says Merkel and Macron need to be clear on their rhetoric regards the make up of an EU army and a timeline. It does suggest though that France and Germany are on slightly different pages though. So in your view it will never happen? I disagree.
Why are people so afraid of an EU army?
Is the aim to get on the level of the USA or Russia in terms of man/fire power?
If so, to what end?
mx5nut said:
braddo said:
Why are people so afraid of an EU army?
When was the last time we went to war unilaterally without the help of our allies? (Falklands, presumably?)
We're likely never going to go to war in the future on our own, most of our allies in NATO also happen to be EU members so it's not going to be much different to that.
Also Macron was not wrong when he suggested that we can't trust America and should protect ourselves against them, along with Russia and China. If not for America we also wouldn't have gone into a phony war solely designed to make a few people rich. Tony Blair, along with GW Bush should've been on trial at The Hague for war crimes, they should be in prison right now along with everyone else who dragged us into the Iraq war.
There's f
k all wrong with an EU army, especially given we've effectively had one since WW2.JuanCarlosFandango said:
Seems like the main argument for remaining is that the EU has more economic power and will use it to bully us if we leave.
Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
They protected their interests, just as we have attempted to do, albeit fruitlessly. It's clear, and always has been, that Britain and the EU are BOTH stronger united. Let's not also forget that we had a damn good deal within - maintaining the Pound, control of our borders and a strong position in the European Parliament. We had/have influence and economic benefits.Does anyone really think that is a sound reason for remaining?
It's come along way from the enlightened club of nations united in peace and friendship.
Fascinating day.
FWIW I think the Grieve amendment is the lesser of the two votes. The only way that we don’t leave next March is a change of government, with a new law passed to suspersede the withdrawal act. At this point I don’t see that happening. The vote of no confidence post a vote failing next week, is not going to pass: Dodds and co may be rattling cages about bringing down the gov, but certainly not after a first vote. They want a different WA and force May’s hand, not a republican sympathiser in Number 10. I think this will run all the way to the end of January though I’m not clear how that will all end. Possibly a repetitive doom loop where the DUP prop up the gov through confidence votes but failing to pass the existing WA.
But the motion of contempt is probably a lot more significant right now: I have no idea how the governments in future can hold the principle of privilege having established that it can be forced by parliament. Tony Blair would have been toast back in 2003 with this play.
FWIW I think the Grieve amendment is the lesser of the two votes. The only way that we don’t leave next March is a change of government, with a new law passed to suspersede the withdrawal act. At this point I don’t see that happening. The vote of no confidence post a vote failing next week, is not going to pass: Dodds and co may be rattling cages about bringing down the gov, but certainly not after a first vote. They want a different WA and force May’s hand, not a republican sympathiser in Number 10. I think this will run all the way to the end of January though I’m not clear how that will all end. Possibly a repetitive doom loop where the DUP prop up the gov through confidence votes but failing to pass the existing WA.
But the motion of contempt is probably a lot more significant right now: I have no idea how the governments in future can hold the principle of privilege having established that it can be forced by parliament. Tony Blair would have been toast back in 2003 with this play.
As an aside I was intrigued about the politics of Campos Bordana’s advisory to the ECJ: I’m sure as an interpretation of ‘intention to leave’ being advisory he may have a point. I wonder how this has gone down in Brussels: can you imagine? If you can cause 2.5 years of uninterrupted chaos chewing up endless hours of commission attention and then just do a 3 point turn what’s to prevent say Orban threatening the same as a power play? Not sure how the members of the ECJ respond to political pressure but this maybe one of the 1 in 4 times the court does not follow guidance from the Advocate General.
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