How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)
Discussion
And so the end game begins.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
ITP said:
And so the end game begins.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
I agree - it's going to be very interesting how this all plays outDue to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
braddo said:
C'mon then big boy, show you care, prove you're going to be at the protest march on Saturday. It is your chance to try and save Brexit.
Is it a sexual thing this need for a photo of me ?Can I also ask wtf do you think protesting like that does, stop wars and such ?
My weapon will be an X when next required of me, and anyway I am booked for a shave in the afternoon that day (it has been a while) with the evening taken up by more relaxing activities based around good food and wine in once well known establishments.
braddo said:
Jeez Louise.... A couple of really easy, f
king obvious examples:
- The UK would have no car manufacturing industry. It was saved by the Japanese investing in the UK as a gateway to Europe in the 80s. Existing industry will decamp to EU within 5-10 years if the UK leaves EU.
- UK financial services - the UK's biggest export earner and one of the biggest contributors to the UK Government's coffers. It is so big because it built on its existing size to become the financial capital of the whole of Europe. Most big institutions who've wanted to trade in the EU have based themselves in London (and the UK to be fair, e.g. the massive JP Morgan presence in Bournemouth, or Amex in Brighton). That has brought HUGE employment benefits and tax revenue to the UK. Some of that has already left the UK as part of Brexit planning.
- Aerospace - the industry would be far smaller but for the UK involvement in Airbus. Who else would Wales be making wings for if we weren't integrated into the EU?
- access to labour - all the way from seasonal fruit picking to surgeons and investment bankers. Jobs that can be filled with no bureaucracy compared to work permits etc from any other country in the world.
- 45 years of bureaucratic and economic integration. Guess why we don't have any trade negotiators? The EU has been doing it for us (very well) for decades. Integrated rules for massively important things like pharma, chemicals, nuclear materials etc.
You just don’t get it do you? If what you say were remotely true (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to ignorance not just lies) most would have been quite happy with their lot and the vote to leave would never have happened. king obvious examples:- The UK would have no car manufacturing industry. It was saved by the Japanese investing in the UK as a gateway to Europe in the 80s. Existing industry will decamp to EU within 5-10 years if the UK leaves EU.
- UK financial services - the UK's biggest export earner and one of the biggest contributors to the UK Government's coffers. It is so big because it built on its existing size to become the financial capital of the whole of Europe. Most big institutions who've wanted to trade in the EU have based themselves in London (and the UK to be fair, e.g. the massive JP Morgan presence in Bournemouth, or Amex in Brighton). That has brought HUGE employment benefits and tax revenue to the UK. Some of that has already left the UK as part of Brexit planning.
- Aerospace - the industry would be far smaller but for the UK involvement in Airbus. Who else would Wales be making wings for if we weren't integrated into the EU?
- access to labour - all the way from seasonal fruit picking to surgeons and investment bankers. Jobs that can be filled with no bureaucracy compared to work permits etc from any other country in the world.
- 45 years of bureaucratic and economic integration. Guess why we don't have any trade negotiators? The EU has been doing it for us (very well) for decades. Integrated rules for massively important things like pharma, chemicals, nuclear materials etc.
As is actually acknowledged in some parts of the EU, their incompetence has brought this on, just as it has the complete disillusionment across most of Southern Europe.
About the only people really happy with the EU are the basket case eastern countries and the Germans.
ITP said:
And so the end game begins.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Thankfully MPs are doing their jobs by not accepting the damaging nonsense presented by May, or the non-existent no deal option.Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
At the end of the day, the Tories/Brexiteers had 2 + years to come up with a credible plan to leave - they failed miserably.
End result is most likely to be remain + a Labour government in the near future. Good work Cameron, all because of a few (toothless/spineless as it turned out) Brexit nutters in their party.
ITP said:
And so the end game begins.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Are you going to lead the uprising?Something the Brexiters never seem to remember - the UK is a representative parliamentary democracy. You vote for a MP to represent the constituency to make decisions in the best interests of the constituency and the national interest.
Maybe, just maybe, the collective intelligence of the House, when it comes to this matter of national interest, is greater than yours or most individuals who think of Brexit in terms of individual effects and not the effects on the nation as a whole.
Jimboka said:
ITP said:
And so the end game begins.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Thankfully MPs are doing their jobs by not accepting the damaging nonsense presented by May, or the non-existent no deal option.Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
At the end of the day, the Tories/Brexiteers had 2 + years to come up with a credible plan to leave - they failed miserably.
End result is most likely to be remain + a Labour government in the near future. Good work Cameron, all because of a few (toothless/spineless as it turned out) Brexit nutters in their party.
REALIST123 said:
You just don’t get it do you? If what you say were remotely true (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to ignorance not just lies) most would have been quite happy with their lot and the vote to leave would never have happened.
As is actually acknowledged in some parts of the EU, their incompetence has brought this on, just as it has the complete disillusionment across most of Southern Europe.
About the only people really happy with the EU are the basket case eastern countries and the Germans.
I gave facts. You give incoherent rubbish. As is actually acknowledged in some parts of the EU, their incompetence has brought this on, just as it has the complete disillusionment across most of Southern Europe.
About the only people really happy with the EU are the basket case eastern countries and the Germans.
The Dangerous Elk said:
braddo said:
C'mon then big boy, show you care, prove you're going to be at the protest march on Saturday. It is your chance to try and save Brexit.
Is it a sexual thing this need for a photo of me ?Can I also ask wtf do you think protesting like that does, stop wars and such ?
My weapon will be an X when next required of me, and anyway I am booked for a shave in the afternoon that day (it has been a while) with the evening taken up by more relaxing activities based around good food and wine in once well known establishments.
braddo said:
REALIST123 said:
You just don’t get it do you? If what you say were remotely true (I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to ignorance not just lies) most would have been quite happy with their lot and the vote to leave would never have happened.
As is actually acknowledged in some parts of the EU, their incompetence has brought this on, just as it has the complete disillusionment across most of Southern Europe.
About the only people really happy with the EU are the basket case eastern countries and the Germans.
I gave facts. You give incoherent rubbish. As is actually acknowledged in some parts of the EU, their incompetence has brought this on, just as it has the complete disillusionment across most of Southern Europe.
About the only people really happy with the EU are the basket case eastern countries and the Germans.
tumble dryer said:
...and yet, the result. Go figure.
Figure that people who voted for Brexit did so because:1) it was a protest vote (very legitimately), or
2) they thought it would be beneficial because of the Brexit campaign's lies, or
3) they're ignorant about politics and economics (fair enough, it's boring and complicated and they vote for MPs to sort that out form them), or
4) they're stupid.
The Dangerous Elk said:
I did, I voted, I do, I will vote again.
What do demos do ? Stop wars ?
Ooh, dunno, what have some protests done in France this week? Tony 1234 reckons that sWhat do demos do ? Stop wars ?
t is going to kick off if Brexit doesn't happen. So you're going to sit back and just vote for UKIP at the next election and that will be your contribution to the Brexit cause?If other Brexiters act like you, what do you think will happen to the Brexit dream?
braddo said:
ITP said:
And so the end game begins.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Due to the Grieve action, where, who’d have believed it, parliament votes to give parliament all the power, MP’s are about to prove even more how out of touch they are. One minute they (remain and leave) are talking about going back to the EU and getting a better deal, the next they are comprehensively throwing away all their bargaining chips by effectively ruling out a no deal !
If I were the EU watching this nonsense I would offer a worse deal if they came crawling back for a better one. Why wouldn’t they, what are our lot going to do now, threaten to leave with no deal !!?
Once May loses the vote, we are now in a situation where we have a group of MP’s (who voted to let the public decide the in/out decision remember) who mainly voted to remain, now taking control of brexit. They are about to say they don’t want May’s deal, they don’t want no deal either. Guess where that leaves us....
They need to be very careful, a second referendum or a suggestion of no brexit will probably have catastrophic effect on all their futures as politicians and the whole political system going forward.
I really don’t think they realise in their Westminster bubble, they all just seem excited about playing politics and ‘winning’.
Are you going to lead the uprising?Something the Brexiters never seem to remember - the UK is a representative parliamentary democracy. You vote for a MP to represent the constituency to make decisions in the best interests of the constituency and the national interest.
Maybe, just maybe, the collective intelligence of the House, when it comes to this matter of national interest, is greater than yours or most individuals who think of Brexit in terms of individual effects and not the effects on the nation as a whole.
But didn’t all these democratic MP’s, of all parties, wether remain or leave, democratically vote to give the general public the choice on wether to remain or leave?
Is it not their job then to deliver the outcome of the vote?
If labour win the next democratic election do we now not have to stick with that?
Why would anyone vote on anything in this country again?
Jimboka said:
Thankfully MPs are doing their jobs by not accepting the damaging nonsense presented by May, or the non-existent no deal option.
At the end of the day, the Tories/Brexiteers had 2 + years to come up with a credible plan to leave - they failed miserably.
End result is most likely to be remain + a Labour government in the near future. Good work Cameron, all because of a few (toothless/spineless as it turned out) Brexit nutters in their party.
Sigh.At the end of the day, the Tories/Brexiteers had 2 + years to come up with a credible plan to leave - they failed miserably.
End result is most likely to be remain + a Labour government in the near future. Good work Cameron, all because of a few (toothless/spineless as it turned out) Brexit nutters in their party.
There are different opinions and different motives.
There appear to be a dozen factions all believing that they are operating to the best interests of their constituents.
Material are the following;
Rump Conservative party - 205
Conservatives Erg - 90
Conservative Europhiles - 15
Labour Europhobes - 10
DUP - 10
Target - 320
The thing here is that as long as she can square the DUP and con Europhile circles she will get over the line. Just.
I suspect you don’t understand that well over 320 MPs are sat on constituencies that voted Leave.
Edited by Ridgemont on Wednesday 5th December 00:39
braddo said:
tumble dryer said:
...and yet, the result. Go figure.
Figure that people who voted for Brexit did so because:1) it was a protest vote (very legitimately), or
2) they thought it would be beneficial because of the Brexit campaign's lies, or
3) they're ignorant about politics and economics (fair enough, it's boring and complicated and they vote for MPs to sort that out form them), or
4) they're stupid.
braddo said:
Ooh, dunno, what have some protests done in France this week? Tony 1234 reckons that st is going to kick off if Brexit doesn't happen. So you're going to sit back and just vote for UKIP at the next election and that will be your contribution to the Brexit cause?
If other Brexiters act like you, what do you think will happen to the Brexit dream?
The French protesters wanted one easily reversed decision reversed. t is going to kick off if Brexit doesn't happen. So you're going to sit back and just vote for UKIP at the next election and that will be your contribution to the Brexit cause?If other Brexiters act like you, what do you think will happen to the Brexit dream?
It's a bit of an ask to keep burning things and smashing things up until thousands or millions of laws and deals have been tweaked, revoked and negotiated to the satisfaction of the mob.
They'd need rather a lot of energy, patience and things to burn until it was all wound up in a decade or three.
braddo said:
tumble dryer said:
...and yet, the result. Go figure.
Figure that people who voted for Brexit did so because:1) it was a protest vote (very legitimately), or
2) they thought it would be beneficial because of the Brexit campaign's lies, or
3) they're ignorant about politics and economics (fair enough, it's boring and complicated and they vote for MPs to sort that out form them), or
4) they're stupid.
5) you never got around to understanding things like the sovereignty of Parliament, never read a history book in your life, and make sweeping inaccurate statements with bugger all to back them up.
Seriously 2-4 options being ‘leavers are pigs
t stupid’? Thank you if we fk you very much you ignorant fk.Ridgemont said:
Or alternatively the mysterious number 5 option which says more about you than the voters:
5) you never got around to understanding things like the sovereignty of Parliament, never read a history book in your life, and make sweeping inaccurate statements with bugger all to back them up.
Seriously 2-4 options being ‘leavers are pigst stupid’? Thank you if we fk you very much you ignorant fk.
Given that sovereignty of Parliament just means one group of people telling us proles what to do, does it really matter who's telling us beyond misplaced nationalism/'patriotism'.5) you never got around to understanding things like the sovereignty of Parliament, never read a history book in your life, and make sweeping inaccurate statements with bugger all to back them up.
Seriously 2-4 options being ‘leavers are pigs
t stupid’? Thank you if we fk you very much you ignorant fk.We're all humans after all and we're certainly all European.
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