Lunacy on the M40

[anonymous-user]

Thesprucegoose said:

REALIST123 said:

But it’s rarely that they’re particularly stubborn, just unaware of their failings. Just like the thousands of young drivers who are still several times more likely to be involved in fatal accidents than the elderly.

not fatals but accidents (yes from 2013)

''We looked at the age of drivers involved in accidents and the results do not seem to support the report – more of them are aged 70 and over than are aged 17-19.'''

''What about those older drivers? There are over 4 million individuals holding a full driving licence, but many of these individuals (such as the 107-year-old mentioned in the data) are unlikely to actually be on the roads. They represent 10% of all individuals holding a full licence and are involved in 6% of all road accidents.''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check...

Lots of varying statistics, this from Brake:

Young drivers (17-24 years old) are at a much higher risk of crashing than older drivers. Drivers aged 17-19 only make up 1.5% of UK licence holders [1], but are involved in 9% of fatal and serious crashes where they are the driver [1a].

[turbomoped]

Even entering the wrong slip road how do you get across to the fast lane? You would think they would be trundling along on the hard shoulder.
It makes you sick how many people young and old gormlessly follow the satnav without actually looking at obvious signs around themselves and shame it wasn't a huge lorry they met on their bogus journey.

[Bandit110]

Dogwatch said:

We had a sad case locally where a young lady was crossing a junction bridge which had roundabouts at each end with slip roads to the DC below. It is thought her satnav told her to "take the first exit" but in the dark she took the first turning which was actually the off slip from the DC. She made it to the bottom of the slip road but didn't survive a head-on shortly after.

I've seen this very nearly happen, I was behind a car at a major motorway intersection, I could see his satnav and the red line on it was looking like it was saying immediate next exit, sure enough he half turned onto the exit lane of a motorway slip road, lucky there was a car coming down it to flag the mistake for him

[Halb]

Jonesy23 said:

Another view:

https://twitter.com/AlexVarga_/status/105189809442...

Looks deliberate to me.

some damn fine reactions there on the drivers saving their lives, and not a hint of slow down from the killers.
Very sad

[nonsequitur]

Nickbrapp said:

Suburu forester must be a PHer

[Red Devil]

saaby93 said:

According to twitter it's easy enough for someone to turn left here at J7 and end up heading south on theenorthbound M40
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7243777,-1.0581528...
If thats what happened

I doubt it. If you look at the video, when the combo comes into view it is opposite the final \ marker for the A329 junction - https://goo.gl/maps/GQ5yzhFXnq42
There would be nowhere near enough distance/time for it to cross 3 lanes of the M40 and get up to speed.

I reckon the error happened on exiting the services - https://goo.gl/maps/FavzFZvzrCz
The bottom of the northbound off ramp is 2 miles from the above-mentioned marker - https://goo.gl/maps/wMsXogytX4L2
Another possibility is that it had been travelling the wrong way southbound on the A40 d/c as well prior to joining the M40.

[Megaflow]

sjg said:

BoRED S2upid said:

How did they even get into lane 3? They have to go across 1and 2 deciding obviously not to use the hard shoulder then up to speed in lane 3 they were lucky to last as long as they did how it only resulted in 3 deaths is a miracle going at that speed.

The left-most lane is the "slow" lane. That's the "fast" lane if you're going the wrong way.

Panic could be a big factor. That same panic that seems to occasionally send old duffers off on a wrecking spree in the car park, where they just jam the accelerator down until the car can't go any further. The obvious thing is just to take your foot off and hit the brake bur they don't.

Here, maybe they've realised they're on the motorway going the wrong way. Instinct is to pull off to the left - but there's no hard shoulder there. Stuck in lane 3, panicked, not thinking clearly, accelerator pushed down to the floor but they can't just take it off and press the brake instead.

It’s not so much whether lane 3 is lane 1 when going the wrong way. But how they got there that baffles me. To manage to go the wrong way down a slip road generally takes some real effort, but let’s assume for a minute that it is a junction that is easily mis judged. Someh9w they made it all the way along the slip road, to the motorway, into and across lane 1, into and across lane 2 before continuing at speed down lane 3.

Surely they came across somebody before they made it to lane 3?

[CanAm]

Thesprucegoose said:

.......... more of them are aged 70 and over than are aged 17-19.'''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check...

What a devious manipulation of statistics - comparing the total accidents of a block of 30+ years of drivers with those of a mere 3 years, many of whom would not be qualified to drive unaccompanied!!

[saaby93]

Red Devil said:

saaby93 said:

According to twitter it's easy enough for someone to turn left here at J7 and end up heading south on theenorthbound M40
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7243777,-1.0581528...
If thats what happened

I doubt it. If you look at the video, when the combo comes into view it is opposite the final \ marker for the A329 junction - https://goo.gl/maps/GQ5yzhFXnq42
There would be nowhere near enough distance/time for it to cross 3 lanes of the M40 and get up to speed.

It could though
The motorway junction is just up by that sign. The slip road ends in a simple road junction at the A329
All someone would have to do is turn left down the slip road and theyre on the motorway just in time for the video


Here's the junction - it wouldnt be difficult to turn left - the kerbing gives a round entry. Sometimes you see no entry signs that have been batted around the wrong way

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 16th October 19:42

[technobob]

When I renewed my bus pass earlier this year, on my 71st birthday, I was offered an older person driving assessment, with a driving instructor, which I thought was a good idea, as I do not want to be that old man who drives his car through shop windows, or demolish letter boxes as an elderly driver did near me, after reversing out of a parking space at speed several hundred metres away.

I was a very useful session as I was picked up on a couple of bad habits (just driving) like holding on to the gear lever between changes and not looking for cyclist creeping up on the nearside. But I was considered fit to drive and got a certificate to prove it. Maybe something like that could be made compulsory at a certain age. A small charge could be made to pay for the instructor's time.

Edited by technobob on Tuesday 16th October 19:29

[Bear-n]

I'm reporting your post for being far too sensible and well-informed for the internet.

[rambo19]

Thesprucegoose said:

i just knew it was old people. Too stubborn to realise their failings an innocent is killed. Something has to be done.

Thought the same to.

I can just imagine the conversation in the car:

'mabel!, look at these idiots all driving the wrong way!'

'now now george, calm down or your angina will start playing up'.

[aeropilot]

sjg said:

Panic could be a big factor. That same panic that seems to occasionally send old duffers off on a wrecking spree in the car park, where they just jam the accelerator down until the car can't go any further. The obvious thing is just to take your foot off and hit the brake bur they don't.

This is exactly what happened to my Mum when only in her early 70's. Reversing at side of road, got her foot caught, slipped whatever, and foot when down hard on accelerator, and instead of lifting she pushed harder thinking she needed to brake but her foot was still on accelerator, and so she reversed at speed into a skip behind her writing off my parents Saab 900, which given they were built like tanks, was some effort oh her part!!

[TheChampers]

Halb said:

Jonesy23 said:

Another view:

https://twitter.com/AlexVarga_/status/105189809442...

Looks deliberate to me.

some damn fine reactions there on the drivers saving their lives, and not a hint of slow down from the killers.
Very sad

Agreed. The Civic and the van (Transit?). I would hope and pray I could do as well in that situation. Tragic for all involved.

[anonymous-user]

rambo19 said:

Thesprucegoose said:

i just knew it was old people. Too stubborn to realise their failings an innocent is killed. Something has to be done.

Thought the same to.

I can just imagine the conversation in the car:

'mabel!, look at these idiots all driving the wrong way!'

'now now george, calm down or your angina will start playing up'.

Well, at least they had the wherewithal to reach old age.

Many youngsters just don’t make it........

[CaptainSlow]

saaby93 said:

t could though
The motorway junction is just up by that sign. The slip road ends in a simple road junction at the A329
All someone would have to do is turn left down the slip road and theyre on the motorway just in time for the video


Here's the junction - it wouldnt be difficult to turn left - the kerbing gives a round entry. Sometimes you see no entry signs that have been batted around the wrong way

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 16th October 19:42

I know the location well, I was in M40 Hughenden bike dealer on Saturday. If the couple had come along the A329 from the North they may have mistaken the turning for the A40 south as the first slip for the M40...the real slip for the M40 South would then become the M40 slip North..which may have been what they wanted.

[Ahbefive]

Doesn't explain why they would keep driving into very busy oncoming traffic and cross 2 lanes whilst doing so.

[CaptainSlow]

Probably couldn't see past the end of the bonnet.

[Cfnteabag]

TooMany2cvs said:

Not quite what the article says, is it?

87yo with dementia.
Licence revoked two years earlier.
Police called two months earlier - PC who visited him didn't check he had a licence/insurance/etc - and was sacked.
Drove wrong way along 30 miles of M42/A42/M1 before collision - albeit at 2am.
Reports logged got carriageways wrong, so when police closed the m'way, they closed the wrong side.

Dead guy's family said "should have had car taken away". Right, but he couldn't have bought another...
Family previously said "should have retests for retired". Right, but he didn't have a licence anyway...

Obviously, there are procedures for dealing with "wrong-wayers" - close the road ahead. Not quite sure what else they're meant to do - but I'm sure they'd be open to suggestions.

It does actually

BBC article said:

The family, through their solicitor, accused Leicestershire Police and Warwickshire Police for having no set policy to deal with a vehicle travelling on the wrong side of the motorway.

Leicestershire Police said there was no "national policy addressing this scenario" and there were "limited tactical options to deal with contraflow driving".

[quote]

[LeoSayer]

surveyor said:

What scare me about this is how as a driver it is virtually impossible to avoid a driver coming at you in this way. It really comes down to luck.

The video posted earlier shows that it is possible to avoid if you concentrate on what's happening ahead, keep a good view ahead and don't tailgate. But yes, an awful lot of luck required as well.