Lunacy on the M40

[Solocle]

saaby93 said:

With a stationary one you're using both crumple zones so if the cars are the same type the impact is shared between them.
Wont it help that the cars arent rooted to the ground too?

No, the crumple zones collapse when you hit a tree, too. If the vehicles are the same mass, travelling at the same speed, after the collision they both have to be stationary, if it's head on. That means that both crumple zones are used, both cars slow from 75 mph to 0 in the space of their crumple zones. It's effectively hitting a stationary brick wall at 75 mph. (If the 150 mph figure is correct). Basically, from when the cars make contact, they both crumple, but the front ends of each move no further (equal and opposite forces).

It is complicated by the fact that the masses/speeds won't have been the same, but it's not too far off. Now, if you hit a 44t artic, it would, for the most part, keep moving.

[roadsmash]

The Twitter footage is somewhat of a juxtaposition.

On one hand you see two old bints driving like a fking pair of maniacs, making you lose all faith in the UK driving demographic.

On the other hand you see some excellent evasive actions and warnings from ordinary drivers on both sides of the motorway, which without a doubt, has saved more lives; restoring faith in UK driving.

RIP to the innocent.

[tannhauser]

roadsmash said:

The Twitter footage is somewhat of a juxtaposition.

On one hand you see two old bints driving like a fking pair of maniacs, making you lose all faith in the UK driving demographic.

On the other hand you see some excellent evasive actions and warnings from ordinary drivers on both sides of the motorway, which without a doubt, has saved more lives; restoring faith in UK driving.

RIP to the innocent.

It is quite impressive evasive action - literally avoiding almost certain death. I bet all the driving gods here think it's particularly unimpressive, however I'm not sure how I'd react - I worry that I'd do very little whilst I'm trying to compute WTF is actually going on - it's not what you'd expect on a motorway, by any stretch of the imagination.

[B'stard Child]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Lord Marylebone said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

1) Young lad driving the wrong way at night, killed a poor lass coming the other way. I think one of the reports said the combined impact speed was around 150mph. So, essentially nothing left of either of them.

Point of order:

As I'm sure you are well aware, two cars colliding head on at 75mph each, does not mean an increased impact, and certainly not a combined impact speed of 150mph.

If both cars are travelling at 75mph and collide head on, the deceleration force on each vehicle is the same as hitting a stationary object.

Take your point of order and shove it up your arris. Does pedanticism have to invade everywhere on PH?

Oh, stupid question.

Your original post made you look a bit thick

Your response to the "education" makes you now look like a prick

confirmed by your aggressive retort which makes you look like a dick

U OK Hun???

[hooblah]

B'stard Child said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Lord Marylebone said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

1) Young lad driving the wrong way at night, killed a poor lass coming the other way. I think one of the reports said the combined impact speed was around 150mph. So, essentially nothing left of either of them.

Point of order:

As I'm sure you are well aware, two cars colliding head on at 75mph each, does not mean an increased impact, and certainly not a combined impact speed of 150mph.

If both cars are travelling at 75mph and collide head on, the deceleration force on each vehicle is the same as hitting a stationary object.

Take your point of order and shove it up your arris. Does pedanticism have to invade everywhere on PH?

Oh, stupid question.

Your original post made you look a bit thick

Your response to the "education" makes you now look like a prick

confirmed by your aggressive retort which makes you look like a dick

U OK Hun???

Shirley that depends on the mass of each vehicle?

[B'stard Child]

hooblah said:

B'stard Child said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Lord Marylebone said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

1) Young lad driving the wrong way at night, killed a poor lass coming the other way. I think one of the reports said the combined impact speed was around 150mph. So, essentially nothing left of either of them.

Point of order:

As I'm sure you are well aware, two cars colliding head on at 75mph each, does not mean an increased impact, and certainly not a combined impact speed of 150mph.

If both cars are travelling at 75mph and collide head on, the deceleration force on each vehicle is the same as hitting a stationary object.

Take your point of order and shove it up your arris. Does pedanticism have to invade everywhere on PH?

Oh, stupid question.

Your original post made you look a bit thick

Your response to the "education" makes you now look like a prick

confirmed by your aggressive retort which makes you look like a dick

U OK Hun???

Shirley that depends on the mass of each vehicle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8E5dUnLmh4

[surveyor]

saaby93 said:

CaptainSlow said:

I know the location well, I was in M40 Hughenden bike dealer on Saturday. If the couple had come along the A329 from the North they may have mistaken the turning for the A40 south as the first slip for the M40...the real slip for the M40 South would then become the M40 slip North..which may have been what they wanted.

Whats the betting that as you say for most motorway junctions theyd expect to turn down there to head north on the M40
How were they to know the green sliproad is missing

I don’t think they would have had time to get in lane 3, nor indeed accelerate to a speed where they are overtaking lane 3 vehicles on the correct side of the motorway if they had come in at that junction.

[heebeegeetee]

tannhauser said:

It is quite impressive evasive action - literally avoiding almost certain death. I bet all the driving gods here think it's particularly unimpressive, however I'm not sure how I'd react - I worry that I'd do very little whilst I'm trying to compute WTF is actually going on - it's not what you'd expect on a motorway, by any stretch of the imagination.

I thought the van was unimpressive, given he had a much better view. That doesn't mean I may not have done likewise - if I had been that van driver I would have been very unimpressed with myself (and I'd probably know what I was doing instead of watching the road ahead).

Other than that, yeah they did well.

[Frik]

Although a join at J7 does seem likely (it’s not a great junction), it seems people saw them before then. J8 seems most logical then.

Well done to the Transit driver and others for flashing oncoming traffic. Always good to pay some attention to the other carriageway.

[alfaman]

surveyor said:

I don’t think they would have had time to get in lane 3, nor indeed accelerate to a speed where they are overtaking lane 3 vehicles on the correct side of the motorway if they had come in at that junction.

agreed - it would be a steep climb up to the M40 ... and then uphill when in the M40. Edit : it’s junction 6 near Chinnor with the steep ramp.

what I don’t get .... if you accidentally use an exit ramp for entry ... wouldn’t you realise as soon as you met the motorway that you were on the wrong (right hand) side ?

Even if momentarily confused (forgetful continental driver ) - as soon as you saw oncoming cars .. you would surely realise? And then still keep driving - WTF?!

Edited by alfaman on Wednesday 17th October 08:23

[rxe]

tannhauser said:

It is quite impressive evasive action - literally avoiding almost certain death. I bet all the driving gods here think it's particularly unimpressive, however I'm not sure how I'd react - I worry that I'd do very little whilst I'm trying to compute WTF is actually going on - it's not what you'd expect on a motorway, by any stretch of the imagination.

I was wondering how I’d actually react if I saw that coming towards me, Yeah, in “video game mode”, it’s easy. I’ve done hundreds of miles on the wrong carriageway in Burnout, it’s the only way to rack up points. But in real life, belting down the outside lane? Would I manage to evade it, or would I freeze? No idea.

[saaby93]

According to the mail the collision was quite a way after the video



Can you just make out a door in the left side of the caravan? or is it LHD?





Oddly enough when I found someone going the wrong way on a DC they were going at a reasonable speed too.
Anyone else noticed the same?

Edited by saaby93 on Wednesday 17th October 08:15

[TooMany2cvs]

saaby93 said:

Can you just make out a door in the left side of the caravan? or is it LHD?

Most caravans have the doors in the "LHD kerb" side. Because they're built for the continental market then imported. It's only UK-built caravans that are "RHD".

The Subaru is definitely RHD - look at the wipers as it comes towards the L3 camera car.

[Frik]

saaby93 said:

According to the mail the collision was quite a way after the video



Can you just make out a door in the left side of the caravan? or is it LHD?

Breathtaking accuracy from the Mail as always. The accident was clearly not long after the dashcam footage from the outside lane was taken. There's only one bridge over the M40 between 7 and 6 and this is north of it. You can even see the church spire of St Giles in Tetsworth in the background.

Edit: Actually there is another, but they're only a couple of hundred metres apart.

Edited by Frik on Wednesday 17th October 08:45

[anonymous-user]

hooblah said:

B'stard Child said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Lord Marylebone said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

1) Young lad driving the wrong way at night, killed a poor lass coming the other way. I think one of the reports said the combined impact speed was around 150mph. So, essentially nothing left of either of them.

Point of order:

As I'm sure you are well aware, two cars colliding head on at 75mph each, does not mean an increased impact, and certainly not a combined impact speed of 150mph.

If both cars are travelling at 75mph and collide head on, the deceleration force on each vehicle is the same as hitting a stationary object.

Take your point of order and shove it up your arris. Does pedanticism have to invade everywhere on PH?

Oh, stupid question.

Your original post made you look a bit thick

Your response to the "education" makes you now look like a prick

confirmed by your aggressive retort which makes you look like a dick

U OK Hun???

Shirley that depends on the mass of each vehicle?

Yes, the mass of each vehicle will cause a variance in the outcome.

The original quote mentioned 'two cars' so I think we can assume that the vehicles will be of roughly similar mass, for the purposes of debunking the '150mph impact' claim.

[chilistrucker]

Blue62 said:

There's a comment in there about policing and I have to agree, 20 years ago you would regularly encounter traffic cops, these days it Traffic Officers and camera's and I honestly believe it has contributed to a fall in standards. I'm not saying that it would eliminate cretins like the one on the M40, but surely it's time to realise that our roads cannot be effectively policed by camera's and toothless traffic officers alone.

I couldn't agree more, spot on.
Standards across the board have definitely dropped in recent years.
I read a post somewhere on PH recently that Essex police now no longer have overnight motorway patrols, they only respond to 999 calls due to budget.

I went past a minor accident, (at the time) on Monday night just before junction 27 on the anti clockwise 25, (near the M11 by the bridge where the traffic police used to regularly wait. )
A Golf was in the central concrete barrier and a dark car on the hard shoulder, all looked very minor. A short while later a lorry became involved, (I don't know what happened) and the accident then ended as a fatality and the 25 was shut for 10 hours.

As mentioned, it wouldn't stop everything but I think a more visual presence of actual traffic police would be helpful.

[saaby93]

Just in case anyone hasnt seen this two vehicle impact test

B'stard Child said:

-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8E5dUnLmh4

[GT119]

Lord Marylebone said:

hooblah said:

B'stard Child said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Lord Marylebone said:

kapiteinlangzaam said:

1) Young lad driving the wrong way at night, killed a poor lass coming the other way. I think one of the reports said the combined impact speed was around 150mph. So, essentially nothing left of either of them.

Point of order:

As I'm sure you are well aware, two cars colliding head on at 75mph each, does not mean an increased impact, and certainly not a combined impact speed of 150mph.

If both cars are travelling at 75mph and collide head on, the deceleration force on each vehicle is the same as hitting a stationary object.

Take your point of order and shove it up your arris. Does pedanticism have to invade everywhere on PH?

Oh, stupid question.

Your original post made you look a bit thick

Your response to the "education" makes you now look like a prick

confirmed by your aggressive retort which makes you look like a dick

U OK Hun???

Shirley that depends on the mass of each vehicle?

Yes, the mass of each vehicle will cause a variance in the outcome.

The original quote mentioned 'two cars' so I think we can assume that the vehicles will be of roughly similar mass, for the purposes of debunking the '150mph impact' claim.

The severity of an impact is going to be closely linked to the energy dissipated, and of course the duration of the dissipation.
Energy is a function of mass and the square of velocity.
A single car travelling at 150 mph carries four times the energy of the same car at 75 mph.
So a 150 mph crash is potentially twice as bad as a head on between two similar cars travelling at 75 mph.

[Europa1]

kapiteinlangzaam said:

Take your point of order and shove it up your arris. Does pedanticism have to invade everywhere on PH?

Oh, stupid question.

Pedantry. The word is 'pedantry'.

Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 17th October 09:48

[TooMany2cvs]

...and let's not forget that the Subaru had ~1t of extra mass tied to the back bumper.