Lunacy on the M40

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Perhaps you could just clarify exactly how far you have to drive the wrong way in lane 3 of a motorway before it's your fault,.....

For insurance purposes fault will be attributed, but for road safety there'll be a number of factors which led up to the collision, including how on earth did they manage to get there, was there any percentage due to road layout or signage that could be updated, and how long did it take for warning messages to be put out on the road.

If it happened on a regular basis, or even more than a few times I'll give you that.
However, road layout, or signage that could be updated? That's shameful.
There's two examples of trying to excuse this, trying desperately to not blame the perpetrator, apologising for this crime by trying to blame the signs????
Forget the signage and road layout, how long would it take any reasonable human being to realise they were driving the wrong way down a slip road and then the wrong way across 3 lanes of oncoming traffic.
Warning messages? What would be considered reasonable? Should we now have a matrix sign every 200 yards and then how long will it take for some numbskull to blame their accident on being distracted by the many matrix signs?
Seriously Sabby, I hope I'm due a parrot from you sir, if not then you've successfully plunged new depths for the liberal apologist regime that infects current society like a dreadful terminal cancer............

[av185]

If Trafpol were on it they would have booked him well before the crash as he was partially MLMing by straddling the white line.

[saaby93]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

If it happened on a regular basis, or even more than a few times I'll give you that.
However, road layout, or signage that could be updated? That's shameful.
There's two examples of trying to excuse this, trying desperately to not blame the perpetrator, apologising for this crime by trying to blame the signs????
Forget the signage and road layout, how long would it take any reasonable human being to realise they were driving the wrong way down a slip road and then the wrong way across 3 lanes of oncoming traffic.
Warning messages? What would be considered reasonable? Should we now have a matrix sign every 200 yards and then how long will it take for some numbskull to blame their accident on being distracted by the many matrix signs?
Seriously Sabby, I hope I'm due a parrot from you sir, if not then you've successfully plunged new depths for the liberal apologist regime that infects current society like a dreadful terminal cancer............

The question is - have they done it deliberately - if so banged to rights
If they haven't, and they've ended up there by accident, the inquests or whatever will ty to find out how/why.
There'll be loads of factors some of which you and other posters have mentioned
This report was quoted earlier
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamsh...

[tali1]

This is one one of the worst ones i have heard about
"A Polish motorist on a "suicide mission" killed a family of four as he drove the wrong way up the M1 motorway, an inquest has heard.Minutes before the crash he had performed a u-turn in his Volkswagen Passat as he approached roadworks and sped towards oncoming traffic in the fast lane of the motorway for nearly two miles.Accident investigators said there was no evidence to show that the heavy goods driver had tried to brake before he ploughed into Mr Nagra's car."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-or...

[anonymous-user]

gothatway said:

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Disgusting apologist horse manure. Typical response these days, pathetic.

Once behind the wheel you are fully responsible for your actions.
I'm sure the family of the 30'year old will join you in detracting blame from the elderly driver.
Perhaps you could just clarify exactly how far you have to drive the wrong way in lane 3 of a motorway before it's your fault, I must have missed that in my driving lessons?

Living up (down) to your name.

Oh, I see what you did there, very clever, no really, I'm put in my place

A response as pathetic as expected.............

Nothing to offer, nothing of any gravity to explain and justify your post on how an elderly drivers actions "could" be blamed on his or hers family if possible and that the scolding comments on here are all a bit mean towards the poor confused murderer behind the wheel.
So again chap, please explain how far you have to drive the wrong way down lane 3 of a motorway before you are 100% totally and utterly responsible both for your actions and the consequences??

[anonymous-user]

saaby93 said:

he question is - have they done it deliberately - if so banged to rights
If they haven't, and they've ended up there by accident, the inquests or whatever will ty to find out how/why.
There'll be loads of factors some of which you and other posters have mentioned
This report was quoted earlier
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamsh...

Fair point, however as I have just responded to another poster, how far do you have to drive before it's deliberate?
If you can get to the end of a slip road on the M40 the wrong way and not stop then it's deliberate from there onwards, elderly or not, foreign or not.

[roadsmash]

I agree with Norfolk. If the driver is clearly unable to at least stop the car (not asking for much!) after noticing dozens of cars all driving towards them, and instead decides to KEEP DRIVING... then clearly no sign or road markings will help them.

The oncoming cars were all they needed to stop their fking car.

The other half of the driver should have ripped the handbrake up if they had spotted the driver in this situation.

Bizarre situation caused by a complete idiot.

[PBDirector]

Thurbs said:

Can't help but think a self driving car would not have reacted as well as some of the drivers in the twitter clip...

I was going to rip your face off for a stupid comment, but then I realised a bunch of the current ones might well have simply stopped and then been ploughed into by the oncoming human causing a worse outcome for the self driving car’s occupants. Which would make your comment technically correct. Dammit.

[gothatway]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Nothing to offer, nothing of any gravity to explain and justify your post on how an elderly drivers actions "could" be blamed on his or hers family if possible and that the scolding comments on here are all a bit mean towards the poor confused murderer behind the wheel.
So again chap, please explain how far you have to drive the wrong way down lane 3 of a motorway before you are 100% totally and utterly responsible both for your actions and the consequences??

Try not to be such a dick. Do you really think the driver deliberately set out to kill people (i.e. murder them) ? Of course he/she was responsible for the action and consequences, but do you really have no experience of the ageing process ? No experience of how people gradually lose competence, without realising it ? Try to empathise - if you had an elderly relative who you in your great wisdom deemed to be unfit to drive and yet they insisted they were fine, what would you do ? It sounds like you would do nothing, and accept no responsibility for such lack of action.

[anonymous-user]

Thinking some more about this, in my years behind the wheel both privately and professionally I've seen drivers drive the wrong way on a motorway 3 times and a dual once.
1 driver was trying to avoid a tailback for a nasty accident on the A1 south at Newark and was blocked by a van driver as he tried to go back up the slip, he turned round probably more out of shame.
The second was a driver who must have left at the wrong junction on the M62 at Huddersfield, he was attempting a sharp turn across the exit to rejoin on the hard shoulder, a numpty yes, but it was light early morning weekend traffic in the days before dash cams so sadly he will have got away with it.
The third was a chap who decided to exit the N/B Lancaster services by going south down the slip, he was met by me and a car driver slightly ahead of me and we both stopped forcing him to turn round with a sheepish wave of acknowledgmen.
The last and most serious was the driver of a silver Puma who turned left off the roundabout at junction 42 on the M6 late one night to head north on the southbound, he was met by me in a HGV, I drove towards him as I slowed and he did stop, only to turnaround and then turn right at the top of the slip, drive the wrong way round the roundabout and then the wrong way down that bit of dual heading back into Carlisle, I called the police to tell them but never heard anything back.
I'd rate that at three deliberate and one clueless but if all four had crashed then how many need an apology for the accident, none.......
Common sense at some point you would hope will out shine the hand wringing liberals who want to cuddle everyone and not blame anyone in case someone gets upset, upset like the family of the poor thirty year old driver who died for no reason.
It's a shame that if the innocent driver turns out to have a family and kids that they don't get given the entire contents of the other drivers estate in compensation, sadly as is clear, some would like to prevent that by blaming anyone but those who are responsible in case someone is offended etc etc .............


Tragic all round I guess......

[saaby93]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Tragic all round I guess......

Usually is
If it turns out its someone who's foreign or has never driven on a motorway before, there's a chance they were trying to keep left on what they thought was a 3 lane road and couldnt understand why these idiots kept overtaking towards them
From the one occurrence Ive seen the youngish guy looked like autopilot had kicked in and he was travelling at pace trying to get to the next junction to get off.
Maybe that's what you do. Stopping against the armco waiting for the police to tell you off, may not cross your mind

[mac96]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

Thinking some more about this, in my years behind the wheel both privately and professionally I've seen drivers drive the wrong way on a motorway 3 times and a dual once.
1 driver was trying to avoid a tailback for a nasty accident on the A1 south at Newark and was blocked by a van driver as he tried to go back up the slip, he turned round probably more out of shame.
The second was a driver who must have left at the wrong junction on the M62 at Huddersfield, he was attempting a sharp turn across the exit to rejoin on the hard shoulder, a numpty yes, but it was light early morning weekend traffic in the days before dash cams so sadly he will have got away with it.
The third was a chap who decided to exit the N/B Lancaster services by going south down the slip, he was met by me and a car driver slightly ahead of me and we both stopped forcing him to turn round with a sheepish wave of acknowledgmen.
The last and most serious was the driver of a silver Puma who turned left off the roundabout at junction 42 on the M6 late one night to head north on the southbound, he was met by me in a HGV, I drove towards him as I slowed and he did stop, only to turnaround and then turn right at the top of the slip, drive the wrong way round the roundabout and then the wrong way down that bit of dual heading back into Carlisle, I called the police to tell them but never heard anything back.
I'd rate that at three deliberate and one clueless but if all four had crashed then how many need an apology for the accident, none.......
Common sense at some point you would hope will out shine the hand wringing liberals who want to cuddle everyone and not blame anyone in case someone gets upset, upset like the family of the poor thirty year old driver who died for no reason.
It's a shame that if the innocent driver turns out to have a family and kids that they don't get given the entire contents of the other drivers estate in compensation, sadly as is clear, some would like to prevent that by blaming anyone but those who are responsible in case someone is offended etc etc .............


Tragic all round I guess......

It's not really about not blaming the responsible driver, or cuddling anyone though. Blame, and punishment(not in this case obviously) are often necessary- but to save lives by preventing similar accidents you have to look further than blame and identify what changes might help, whether to road design or to the driver testing regime. That where this thread has gone.

You only have to look at the vast improvements in the KSI figures over the last few decades- this is not mainly the result of road policing or blaming individuals but of other factors like changes to road and vehicle design, and probably to rules for professional drivers.

As you say, tragic all round.

[anonymous-user]

gothatway said:

Try not to be such a dick. Do you really think the driver deliberately set out to kill people (i.e. murder them) ? Of course he/she was responsible for the action and consequences, but do you really have no experience of the ageing process ? No experience of how people gradually lose competence, without realising it ? Try to empathise - if you had an elderly relative who you in your great wisdom deemed to be unfit to drive and yet they insisted they were fine, what would you do ? It sounds like you would do nothing, and accept no responsibility for such lack of action.

Quite where you get the idea I would do nothing is confusing, my tone would indeed suggest the opposite.
I'd confront them, take the keys off them and then report it to the DVLA. Do you have any idea about responsibility.
I had an elderly driver nudge the side of a van I was driving in Batley many many years ago, he drove at the side of it, hit it, reversed, then did the same again and then reveresed into a bollard before giving up, the police came and were very understanding, a WPC accompanied them home and a relative drove the car home, his licence was revoked due to his eyesight and his relatives, it turns out, had been telling him to stop but no one actually did anything about it, it took a very minor but public incident to do it thank god but it shows just how dangerous things could be.

I think his actions are deliberate when he hits lane three as can be seen by the footage.
Yes, I have many experiences of the ageing process in relatives, vascular dementia being a common one, I have total empathy with the ageing process and how it displays itself, however I wouldn't roll it out as an excuse for what's happened, trying to find reasons to excuse or justify what happened in this awful case is, to me, sickening. I guess that's just me.

Oh, and I don't have great wisdom as you sarcastically put it, I just have a few years behind the wheel as an average joe who thankfully has not been infected by this apologising liberal spineless cancer that try's to set up society to excuse and justify any action no matter what the cause or affect in order to both feel self righteous and blameless.

I don't doubt that judging by your posts and response to me that if the driver of the wrong way car had survived this then you will be looking for any reason at all not to lock him up for a very long time, let me guess, diminished responsibility, no ban just a fine he can afford and some kind of victim surcharge to the family of the other driver, we don't want to upset any one do we...........

[GSE]

There has been some dumb stuff posted on here but this takes the biscuit.

saaby93 said:

Usually is
If it turns out its someone who's foreeign or has never driven on a motorway before, there's a chance they were trying to keep left on what they thought was a 3 lane road and couldnt understand why these idiots kept overtaking towards them
From the one occurrence Ive seen the guy looked like autopilot had kicked in and he was travelling at pace trying to get to the next junction to get off.
Maybe that's what you do. Stopping against the armco waiting for the police to tell you off, may not cross your mind

May be that's what you do?? WTAF?
Stop apologizing for the driver, obviously a complete and utter lunatic, any sane person would have realized their mistake and immediately stopped.

[saaby93]

GSE said:

Any sane person would have realized their mistake and immediately stopped.

From what's been posted about similar occurences that doesnt seem to happen. They seem to keep going.
Have you found some articles where someone has realised and parked up?

[bradders]

NorfolkInClue1 said:

I had an elderly driver nudge the side of a van I was driving in Batley many many years ago, he drove at the side of it, hit it, reversed, then did the same again and then reveresed into a bollard before giving up, the police came and were very understanding, a WPC accompanied them home and a relative drove the car home, his licence was revoked due to his eyesight and his relatives, it turns out, had been telling him to stop but no one actually did anything about it, it took a very minor but public incident to do it thank god but it shows just how dangerous things could be.

Chap wasn't called Don Brereton by any chance, from Birstall? Story rings a bell - apologies for the sidetrack.

[anonymous-user]

mac96 said:

other factors like changes to road and vehicle design, and probably to rules for professional drivers.

Christ don't get me started on the rules for professional drivers, most of them have always been there but the enforcement hasn't. Now however the DVSA in recent years are going all out at last.
I don't and have never run bent but am aware of areas in the industry that do and are targeted as such.
We've had a crackdown on load security in order to prevent load spillage in case of an accident or a rollover ( however the preferred method of recovery in a roll over is to cut the curtain and leave the load in the road as lifting an empty trailer is safer?!?! ) and a tougher enforcement on fines for hours, in particular the WTD hours with fines for offences of £300 per offence to a maximum of 5 per stop.
Also now have companies joining a scheme with the DVSA whereby if they share online the maintenance and drivers records they will not be stopped at the roadside for checks.
Also form next year all new vehicles will be fitted with tachometer units that can be read remotely from the roadside for enforcement, so there is plenty going on to bring about safety and compliance in the industry, however that's not why I quit.
I quit early due to a cancer diagnosis, I was thinking about stopping when my next medical was due but this brought it forward.
My motivations for stopping were solely down to the standard or driving on the roads, in the last ten years it has become ridiculous.
The self entitlement and disregard is now so widespread that driving is fast becoming a chore rather than a joy, the firm I just left has been forced to install front, side and rear live streaming cameras because of so many near misses, false insurance claims and false allegations against the drivers, some of which would have been dismissal had it not been for the evidence the cameras give.
Sorry for the hijack, but being a professional driver maybe has made me a little less forgiving of others actions on the road or the ensuing sympathy.
I've seen some truly dreadful accidents and some wonderful acts of heroism and kindness whilst on the road, but in this case, I'm sorry but zero sympathy whatsoever to a driver who can do what has been seen, utterly and totally to blame and a shame they cannot be punished.
I might seem harsh but hey ho, I must be a little old fashioned I guess........................

[anonymous-user]

bradders said:

NorfolkInClue1 said:

I had an elderly driver nudge the side of a van I was driving in Batley many many years ago, he drove at the side of it, hit it, reversed, then did the same again and then reveresed into a bollard before giving up, the police came and were very understanding, a WPC accompanied them home and a relative drove the car home, his licence was revoked due to his eyesight and his relatives, it turns out, had been telling him to stop but no one actually did anything about it, it took a very minor but public incident to do it thank god but it shows just how dangerous things could be.

Chap wasn't called Don Brereton by any chance, from Birstall? Story rings a bell - apologies for the sidetrack.

Sorry mate, can't remember the name, it was on commercial street in the centre, he was with his wife.
Bit sad really as you knew it was going to take away a massive part of their independence but it had to be done, imagine if he'd fancied a trip to Blackpool with the wife and his family were all still to scared to say anything because it would cause so many changes......

[85Carrera]

otolith said:

85Carrera said:

otolith said:

Thurbs said:

Can't help but think a self driving car would not have reacted as well as some of the drivers in the twitter clip...

Can't help thinking a self-driving car wouldn't have driven the wrong way down the M40...

How naive ...

You don’t think it will be possible to hack into them, then?

Yes, I'm sure that deliberate murder by hackers will be a massively bigger problem than half blind old duffers getting confused.

Far more likely to happen. Have you not heard of terrorists and/or rogue states or are you just living in a tree hugging bubble about how great self-driving electric cars will be

[Red Devil]

saaby93 said:

Or theyve come down the A40 from Oxford and ended up taking the right lane here at 8A/B onto the M40

No. You can't reach that point by doing what you suggest.
It would have be from Wheatley (London Road) or the A40 the other way (from the services).
https://goo.gl/maps/vQdCZP2XVvL2 - (expand the map view: bottom left).