Lunacy on the M40

[heebeegeetee]

Silverbullet767 said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-...

Just in case anyone missed it, RIP to all those involved. Hopefully this will push some more legislation for eye-tests and re-tests for the elderly.

Thanks for the link.

I just don't think we need eye tests or even driving tests to know which side of the mway to drive on. This is more of a health or mental health issue imo. Its really difficult to understand, not helped by both occupants if the Forrester being killed.

But I mean, it's not like we have someone so ancient and incompetent that he struggles to drag his Micra off his front drive with revs on the limiter whilst smoking the clutch, presumably this elderly couple were still able to go camping and hitch/unhitch caravans etc etc.

[aeropilot]

captain_cynic said:

I think part of the problem is that the UK symbol used to indicate that drivers should give way (triangular road markings) look exactly like a directional arrow from the opposite direction and anyone not familiar with UK road markings (and possibly drives on the wrong side of the road in their country) could easily misinterpret it.

Good point, even more so with a much greater volume of foreign drivers on our roads that largely still has a signage/road markings design dating from before WW2.

[Biggles delivers the goods]

aeropilot said:

Good point, even more so with a much greater volume of foreign drivers on our roads that largely still has a signage/road markings design dating from before WW2.

not strictly before WW2, or close to be honest. They were redesigned in 1957. The idea was to use pictograms so that they were easily understood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Calvert

[saaby93]

Having come across a wrongwayer on a DC - it doesnt have to be age.
It was a young lad who'd come off a confusing roundabout onto an exit
Apparently he continued along the DC until he came to a break in the armco and zipped across to where he wanted to be.

You never know what gets into someones mind where they end up in a situation they werent expecting or not previously had to deal but some regular cut throughs in the central barrier or just after a junction might help

This one they found there were no police procedures for dealing with wrongwayers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamsh...

Edited by saaby93 on Tuesday 16th October 16:34

[surveyor]

What scare me about this is how as a driver it is virtually impossible to avoid a driver coming at you in this way. It really comes down to luck.

Along with how on earth presumably taking a wrong turn, turns into drive at 60 mph into oncoming traffic instead of stopping, preferably on the hard shoulder, but actually any bloody where will do.

[superlightr]

surveyor said:

What scare me about this is how as a driver it is virtually impossible to avoid a driver coming at you in this way. It really comes down to luck.

Along with how on earth presumably taking a wrong turn, turns into drive at 60 mph into oncoming traffic instead of stopping, preferably on the hard shoulder, but actually any bloody where will do.

quite. why they didnt just stop in lane 3 if nothing else.

Perhaps having a set of repeater "No entry" signs just before joining a mway/dc as a back up. Arrows painted in road.
Yes it may be impractical to do everything but an additional signage may help and I would be in favour when you look at the consequences.

[BoRED S2upid]

How did they even get into lane 3? They have to go across 1and 2 deciding obviously not to use the hard shoulder then up to speed in lane 3 they were lucky to last as long as they did how it only resulted in 3 deaths is a miracle going at that speed.

[anonymous-user]

i just knew it was old people. Too stubborn to realise their failings an innocent is killed. Something has to be done.

[anonymous-user]

Thesprucegoose said:

i just knew it was old people. Too stubborn to realise their failings an innocent is killed. Something has to be done.

I guess in this specific type of incident it’s mostly going to be someone of impaired ability, and therefore most likely someone elderly.

But it’s rarely that they’re particularly stubborn, just unaware of their failings. Just like the thousands of young drivers who are still several times more likely to be involved in fatal accidents than the elderly.

[SVTRick]

Foreign artic on the M25 early hours of this morning.
A friend was on the section heading for Dartford clockwise and could not believe it when it passed him on the opposite side
of the centre barrier.
Road ahead was blocked by police however.

[Lopey]

Thesprucegoose said:

i just knew it was old people. Too stubborn to realise their failings an innocent is killed. Something has to be done.

Really? Has it not crossed your mind that the driver could have had dementia? Possibly a stroke? Both of which can happen at any age.

[anonymous-user]

REALIST123 said:

But it’s rarely that they’re particularly stubborn, just unaware of their failings. Just like the thousands of young drivers who are still several times more likely to be involved in fatal accidents than the elderly.

not fatals but accidents (yes from 2013)

''We looked at the age of drivers involved in accidents and the results do not seem to support the report – more of them are aged 70 and over than are aged 17-19.'''

''What about those older drivers? There are over 4 million individuals holding a full driving licence, but many of these individuals (such as the 107-year-old mentioned in the data) are unlikely to actually be on the roads. They represent 10% of all individuals holding a full licence and are involved in 6% of all road accidents.''

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/reality-check...

[anonymous-user]

What a sad day for all involved. It's absolutely tragic.

[anonymous-user]

Lopey said:

Really? Has it not crossed your mind that the driver could have had dementia? Possibly a stroke? Both of which can happen at any age.

the passenger as well. Maybe they had an emergency, we all know what is most likely. unfit to drive yet carried on driving and murdered an innocent bloke. No sorrow from me.

[sjg]

BoRED S2upid said:

How did they even get into lane 3? They have to go across 1and 2 deciding obviously not to use the hard shoulder then up to speed in lane 3 they were lucky to last as long as they did how it only resulted in 3 deaths is a miracle going at that speed.

The left-most lane is the "slow" lane. That's the "fast" lane if you're going the wrong way.

Panic could be a big factor. That same panic that seems to occasionally send old duffers off on a wrecking spree in the car park, where they just jam the accelerator down until the car can't go any further. The obvious thing is just to take your foot off and hit the brake bur they don't.

Here, maybe they've realised they're on the motorway going the wrong way. Instinct is to pull off to the left - but there's no hard shoulder there. Stuck in lane 3, panicked, not thinking clearly, accelerator pushed down to the floor but they can't just take it off and press the brake instead.

[Lopey]

Thesprucegoose said:

the passenger as well. Maybe they had an emergency, we all know what is most likely. unfit to drive yet carried on driving and murdered an innocent bloke. No sorrow from me.

Trolling makes you look like a tt.

[anonymous-user]

Lopey said:

Trolling makes you look like a tt.

i been here long enough to not troll, i express my opinion, this thing could have been much worse, similar to the dump truck driver. yes it is sad but i would bet avoidable.

[TooMany2cvs]

saaby93 said:

This one they found there were no police procedures for dealing with wrongwayers
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamsh...

Not quite what the article says, is it?

87yo with dementia.
Licence revoked two years earlier.
Police called two months earlier - PC who visited him didn't check he had a licence/insurance/etc - and was sacked.
Drove wrong way along 30 miles of M42/A42/M1 before collision - albeit at 2am.
Reports logged got carriageways wrong, so when police closed the m'way, they closed the wrong side.

Dead guy's family said "should have had car taken away". Right, but he couldn't have bought another...
Family previously said "should have retests for retired". Right, but he didn't have a licence anyway...

Obviously, there are procedures for dealing with "wrong-wayers" - close the road ahead. Not quite sure what else they're meant to do - but I'm sure they'd be open to suggestions.

[otolith]

Tragic for both families. I don't think people always realise when they are past it - they aren't necessarily being deliberately irresponsible or selfish. But they do need to be helped to realise when they should hang up their keys.

[Dogwatch]

Shakermaker said:

It is extremely likely to be "Take the next turn" mentality which some people take too literally. Following a map, a sat nav or someone giving vocal directions and they say "take the next turn" and instead of taking the actual turn to the on road, take the left turn which is actually not a turn at all, but a no-entry signed exit to a one-way piece of road. I've done this before with people who are too literal, though fortunately the only outcome was turning into someone's driveway instead of taking the actual "turn" you intended for them to take.

We had a sad case locally where a young lady was crossing a junction bridge which had roundabouts at each end with slip roads to the DC below. It is thought her satnav told her to "take the first exit" but in the dark she took the first turning which was actually the off slip from the DC. She made it to the bottom of the slip road but didn't survive a head-on shortly after.