The People's Vote - which way would you vote?

[anonymous-user]

psi310398 said:

There was no Single Market in 1975.

There still isn't one even now. The area where the UK excels, services, isn't covered fully by the SM.

[Earthdweller]

[quote=Trolleys Thank You]

What on earth did we vote to remain in, in 1975 it certainly wasn’t a federal European superstate ?

Heath took us into a “Common market” a free trade area in 1973 .. the following Labour govt asked if we wanted to remain in the common market after their election

2016 was the only time the British people have been asked their opinion on the EU

Certainly very different entities .. 1975 .. 9 countries agreeing trade without tariffs to today’s EU

[Trolleys Thank You]

MolestedSausage said:

A decision has been made, democratically, by the people, and there is no way of the public stopping it until it's met its completion criteria. The EU withdrew the opportunity to go back too. What you are suggesting is worse than no deal.

Incorrect. There's absolutely nothing constitutionally stopping people from changing their minds if they wish whenever they wish. Making up silly rules on an internet forum doesn't change that fact. We can have another referendum before leaving.

[anonymous-user]

wormus said:

This may help the hard of understanding

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Here have another

[Pan Pan Pan]

Trolleys Thank You said:

psi310398 said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

Yes we are, the Single Market, effectively what we voted by a massive majority to be part of in 1975.

There was no Single Market in 1975.

There was the EEC (which became the SM) which the British people overwhelmingly voted to be a part of.

That comment is the equivalent of asking people if they wanted to be a member of a cricket club, which they join, but which then a few years down the line turns itself into a club for paedophiles without asking them if that was what they wanted.

[psi310398]

Trolleys Thank You said:

There was the EEC (which became the SM) which the British people overwhelmingly voted to be a part of.

So you acknowledge that there was no Single Market in 1975?

Why the slippery elision with the SM which came in almost two decades later? The people were not given the opportunity to vote on the SM in 1975, nor at any time after, until 2016.

[MolestedSausage]

Trolleys Thank You said:

Incorrect. There's absolutely nothing constitutionally stopping people from changing their minds if they wish whenever they wish. Making up silly rules on an internet forum doesn't change that fact. We can have another referendum before leaving.

The Change management process in government is fairly well defined.

[Trolleys Thank You]

Pan Pan Pan said:

As for the 1975 vote, how could the people of the UK be asked if they want to be a member of something that did not even exist in 1975?.

The same way they were 2 years ago.The people had no idea what leaving would look like in 2016. There was no fixed version of leaving in existence. Many would argue there still isn't.

[Tuna]

Can I ask, politely and clearly, that some of the prolific posters on here commit to posting again in six months' time (and probably six months after that)?

There are a lot of strident opinions being posted, particularly at the moment, and I for one am very interested to see who has a real grasp of the situation.

[psi310398]

Pan Pan Pan said:

That comment is the equivalent of asking people if they wanted to be a member of a cricket club, which they join, but which then a few years down the line turns itself into a club for paedophiles without asking them if that was what they wanted.

People get upset here if you compare the EU to kiddy fiddlers. So more like a cricket club hiding an S&M club where they take your dues, then tie you down before announcing their change of focus?

[Trolleys Thank You]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

psi310398 said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

Yes we are, the Single Market, effectively what we voted by a massive majority to be part of in 1975.

There was no Single Market in 1975.

There was the EEC (which became the SM) which the British people overwhelmingly voted to be a part of.

That comment is the equivalent of asking people if they wanted to be a member of a cricket club, which they join, but which then a few years down the line turns itself into a club for paedophiles without asking them if that was what they wanted.

What a very strange and frankly disgusting analogy...

[don'tbesilly]

Trolleys Thank You said:

MolestedSausage said:

A decision has been made, democratically, by the people, and there is no way of the public stopping it until it's met its completion criteria. The EU withdrew the opportunity to go back too. What you are suggesting is worse than no deal.

Incorrect. There's absolutely nothing constitutionally stopping people from changing their minds if they wish whenever they wish. Making up silly rules on an internet forum doesn't change that fact. We can have another referendum before leaving.

I'm all for a 2nd referendum once the EU let us know what the new terms of our relationship will be to remain a member of the EU.

Once we know the details and get that vote it will rule out staying as a member once and for all.

Bring it on.

[psi310398]

Tuna said:

Can I ask, politely and clearly, that some of the prolific posters on here commit to posting again in six months' time (and probably six months after that)?

There are a lot of strident opinions being posted, particularly at the moment, and I for one am very interested to see who has a real grasp of the situation.

Sure.

If TM gets her way, there'll be redoubled effort actually to leave. And plenty to vent about.

If we successfully leave, on the other hand, we'll be there to support Budgie et al in their grief.

[Earthdweller]

Trolleys Thank You said:

The same way they were 2 years ago.The people had no idea what leaving would look like in 2016. There was no fixed version of leaving in existence. Many would argue there still isn't.

No

A majority didn’t want to remain in the EU .. they didn’t like it and wanted out .. a ship setting sail on a new course must chart its own path

I’d argue the leave vote was very clear .. people didn’t like the EU and the way it was/is going and wanted out

[Earthdweller]

don'tbesilly said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

MolestedSausage said:

A decision has been made, democratically, by the people, and there is no way of the public stopping it until it's met its completion criteria. The EU withdrew the opportunity to go back too. What you are suggesting is worse than no deal.

Incorrect. There's absolutely nothing constitutionally stopping people from changing their minds if they wish whenever they wish. Making up silly rules on an internet forum doesn't change that fact. We can have another referendum before leaving.

I'm all for a 2nd referendum once the EU let us know what the new terms of our relationship will be to remain a member of the EU.

Once we know the details and get that vote it will rule out staying as a member once and for all.

Bring it on.

Yes, conscription to an EU Army for all 18 year olds .. followed by cold weather training and a long march East

[Sway]

citizensm1th said:

Sway do you still think they are going to agree a deal acceptable to parliament or are we crashing out with no deal as you once stated we never would?

Yes, but not right now.

We'll not crash out without any deal at all - even today the EU was reassuring certain things irrespective of there being a deal. That's a deal.

All these things will be technical competencies that no-one is politically fussed about. For example, who's getting worked up about implementing visas for tourists? No one - so a deal is made.

We may well go without a transition/withdrawal agreement on trade. Exceptionally unlikely though.

[Trolleys Thank You]

don'tbesilly said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

MolestedSausage said:

A decision has been made, democratically, by the people, and there is no way of the public stopping it until it's met its completion criteria. The EU withdrew the opportunity to go back too. What you are suggesting is worse than no deal.

Incorrect. There's absolutely nothing constitutionally stopping people from changing their minds if they wish whenever they wish. Making up silly rules on an internet forum doesn't change that fact. We can have another referendum before leaving.

I'm all for a 2nd referendum once the EU let us know what the new terms of our relationship will be to remain a member of the EU.

Once we know the details and get that vote it will rule out staying as a member once and for all.

Bring it on.

By that logic 2016 should be invalidated since we had no idea what leaving would look like and our relationship with the EU. Sounds good.

[Trolleys Thank You]

Earthdweller said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

The same way they were 2 years ago.The people had no idea what leaving would look like in 2016. There was no fixed version of leaving in existence. Many would argue there still isn't.

No

A majority didn’t want to remain in the EU .. they didn’t like it and wanted out .. a ship setting sail on a new course must chart its own path

I’d argue the leave vote was very clear .. people didn’t like the EU and the way it was/is going and wanted out

It really wasn't. There was no fixed upon version of what leaving would look like, just weak slogans from a weak PM.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

Can I ask, politely and clearly, that some of the prolific posters on here commit to posting again in six months' time (and probably six months after that)?

There are a lot of strident opinions being posted, particularly at the moment, and I for one am very interested to see who has a real grasp of the situation.

I'm looking forward to the meeting i will have with a spectator at Zandvoort i met this year, where we discussed Brexit. We agreed to meet at next years event to chew the fat. We had a great chat about Brexit and i eductated him about the CTA and other areas he had no idea existed.

[don'tbesilly]

Earthdweller said:

Trolleys Thank You said:

The same way they were 2 years ago.The people had no idea what leaving would look like in 2016. There was no fixed version of leaving in existence. Many would argue there still isn't.

No

A majority didn’t want to remain in the EU .. they didn’t like it and wanted out .. a ship setting sail on a new course must chart its own path

I’d argue the leave vote was very clear .. people didn’t like the EU and the way it was/is going and wanted out

I'd agree