The People's Vote - which way would you vote?
Poll: The People's Vote - which way would you vote?
Total Members Polled: 1247
Discussion
REALIST123 said:
Trophy Husband said:
Why do you assume that a larger majority to leave is likely if there is a second referendum? I'm just interested in how you can draw this conclusion when nobody knows what the future of the UK is at this moment.
If people were told that leaving the EU would damage the UK economy, employment, the pound in their pocket, their families future, the value of their pound abroad etc for the next 30 years and it was substantiated with hard facts, do you really think people would still vote to leave? If so, what would be the justification for such a vote? I'd like to know.
They were told all that before. It didn’t happen. Why should they believe it this time? If people were told that leaving the EU would damage the UK economy, employment, the pound in their pocket, their families future, the value of their pound abroad etc for the next 30 years and it was substantiated with hard facts, do you really think people would still vote to leave? If so, what would be the justification for such a vote? I'd like to know.
Edited by Trophy Husband on Thursday 15th November 09:44
In any case, many of the people who voted to leave would be little worse off if what you outline did happen. Which is why we arrived here in the first place.
Edited by REALIST123 on Thursday 15th November 09:57
Honest answer would be appreciated.
More resignations.
Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot. Numbers suggest May likely to be replaced by another remainer.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot. Numbers suggest May likely to be replaced by another remainer.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Edited by Helicopter123 on Thursday 15th November 10:47
Helicopter123 said:
More resignations.
Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Has anyone heard from the People's Vote team? Why would they want a vote, when the agreement is for 'hard Remain'?Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Piha said:
If the hard right Brexiteers don't like the PM's version of Brexit I would suggest they organise a march to show their disapproval. I wonder if they would get 500 000 + people onto the streets?
I do think it''s about time people accepted the democratic deal TM has secured from the EU and got behind our PM.
Brexiteers put 17.5 million onto the streets when marching to the polls.I do think it''s about time people accepted the democratic deal TM has secured from the EU and got behind our PM.
Hardly our fault a lot of people were either too tired, didn't care or were other wise engaged, is it now?
As for the 200,000 Remoaners that lolloped in London, tell me, when are their demands
due to be met?
Trophy Husband said:
Why do you assume that a larger majority to leave is likely if there is a second referendum? I'm just interested in how you can draw this conclusion when nobody knows what the future of the UK is at this moment.
If people were told that leaving the EU would damage the UK economy, employment, the pound in their pocket, their families future, the value of their pound abroad etc for the next 30 years and it was substantiated with hard facts, do you really think people would still vote to leave? If so, what would be the justification for such a vote? I'd like to know.
One slight problem with that - there won't be any 'Hard Facts' to support most of it, just people who claim to be 'experts' (but who have a vested interest) waffling on about their projected figures etc.If people were told that leaving the EU would damage the UK economy, employment, the pound in their pocket, their families future, the value of their pound abroad etc for the next 30 years and it was substantiated with hard facts, do you really think people would still vote to leave? If so, what would be the justification for such a vote? I'd like to know.
Edited by Trophy Husband on Thursday 15th November 09:44
The ordinary population are fed up with 'experts' (usually in London) telling them what they should do, or think.
Any vote now would surely be a much increased vote to leave. Nobody wants to live in a country that has to comply with the wishes of 27 other countries.
Tuna said:
Helicopter123 said:
More resignations.
Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Has anyone heard from the People's Vote team? Why would they want a vote, when the agreement is for 'hard Remain'?Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Thatcher and Major secured some very valuable concessions - why give these up?
Helicopter123 said:
Tuna said:
Helicopter123 said:
More resignations.
Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Has anyone heard from the People's Vote team? Why would they want a vote, when the agreement is for 'hard Remain'?Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Thatcher and Major secured some very valuable concessions - why give these up?
Helicopter123 said:
The best possible deal with the EU is the one we already have, let's push to hold onto this.
Thatcher and Major secured some very valuable concessions - why give these up?
But we've just offered the EU all of the advantages of Remaining, without the troublesome voting and dissent. Why should they negotiate a worse deal than that?Thatcher and Major secured some very valuable concessions - why give these up?
Robertj21a said:
Trophy Husband said:
Why do you assume that a larger majority to leave is likely if there is a second referendum? I'm just interested in how you can draw this conclusion when nobody knows what the future of the UK is at this moment.
If people were told that leaving the EU would damage the UK economy, employment, the pound in their pocket, their families future, the value of their pound abroad etc for the next 30 years and it was substantiated with hard facts, do you really think people would still vote to leave? If so, what would be the justification for such a vote? I'd like to know.
One slight problem with that - there won't be any 'Hard Facts' to support most of it, just people who claim to be 'experts' (but who have a vested interest) waffling on about their projected figures etc.If people were told that leaving the EU would damage the UK economy, employment, the pound in their pocket, their families future, the value of their pound abroad etc for the next 30 years and it was substantiated with hard facts, do you really think people would still vote to leave? If so, what would be the justification for such a vote? I'd like to know.
Edited by Trophy Husband on Thursday 15th November 09:44
The ordinary population are fed up with 'experts' (usually in London) telling them what they should do, or think.
Any vote now would surely be a much increased vote to leave. Nobody wants to live in a country that has to comply with the wishes of 27 other countries.
Tuna said:
Helicopter123 said:
The best possible deal with the EU is the one we already have, let's push to hold onto this.
Thatcher and Major secured some very valuable concessions - why give these up?
But we've just offered the EU all of the advantages of Remaining, without the troublesome voting and dissent. Why should they negotiate a worse deal than that?Thatcher and Major secured some very valuable concessions - why give these up?
Come on chopper, you like chequers remember
Helicopter123 said:
More resignations.
Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot. Numbers suggest May likely to be replaced by another remainer.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Your first name is Donald and you write like you tweet so ICMFP Brexiters need to topple May if they want to force a different deal/no deal.
They don't have the numbers in parliament, and need to topple the PM and replace with one of their own. Looks like a long shot. Numbers suggest May likely to be replaced by another remainer.
Remainers will target the parliament vote, looking to amend and include provision for a People's Vote. The numbers look encouraging and movement now very well organised, and disciplined.
Brexiters getting rolled over it seems, but situation very fluid.
Edited by Helicopter123 on Thursday 15th November 10:47
Trophy Husband said:
Half did (minus a smidgen)
Not necessarily. They may have wanted to remain due to other reasons, trade or just an easy life. Some were probably a bit scared of upsetting the apple cart, without realising that such a large number of others would vote to leave. The government was also good at scaremongering.Many of those may now be relieved to be getting out of all the EU problems. A Leave vote now could well be over 60%.
My opinion FWIW.
We now have two options:
1) Accept the deal; or
2) Leave without a deal on WTO terms.
I’m happy for Parliament to decide between those two options, or go back to the polls if they can’t/won’t.
Remaining cannot be an option. It does not overstate it (in my opinion) to say that our very democracy is at stake. The EU does have previous for this sort of strategy (i.e. to keep asking the same question until it gets the correct answer). I’m fairly ambivalent about Brexit (though probably just about come down in favour of leave) and I’ve not felt the need to march or protest about anything in the past. That said, I’ll certainly take to the streets in support of the referendum result if I have to. I believe all true democrats, of whatever persuasion, ought to feel the same.
I think we need to leave, and those that feel differently need to make the case to re-join one we have done so. I think they’ll struggle to do this as it was clear that our heart was never really in the European Project. It’s right that we bid them a fond farewell and leave them to get on with it. Cameron’s opt out on “ever-closer union” was pointless.
All of that said, I can’t help but wonder if, had Cameron negotiated this deal before the referendum, the Brexiteers might not have been a little more inclined to accept it.
We now have two options:
1) Accept the deal; or
2) Leave without a deal on WTO terms.
I’m happy for Parliament to decide between those two options, or go back to the polls if they can’t/won’t.
Remaining cannot be an option. It does not overstate it (in my opinion) to say that our very democracy is at stake. The EU does have previous for this sort of strategy (i.e. to keep asking the same question until it gets the correct answer). I’m fairly ambivalent about Brexit (though probably just about come down in favour of leave) and I’ve not felt the need to march or protest about anything in the past. That said, I’ll certainly take to the streets in support of the referendum result if I have to. I believe all true democrats, of whatever persuasion, ought to feel the same.
I think we need to leave, and those that feel differently need to make the case to re-join one we have done so. I think they’ll struggle to do this as it was clear that our heart was never really in the European Project. It’s right that we bid them a fond farewell and leave them to get on with it. Cameron’s opt out on “ever-closer union” was pointless.
All of that said, I can’t help but wonder if, had Cameron negotiated this deal before the referendum, the Brexiteers might not have been a little more inclined to accept it.
dazwalsh said:
So lets imagine a peoples vote was just anounced, the options are
May’s draft deal
No deal
(There cant be a remain as there is no legal mechanism to reverse A50)
Go...
Surely it has to beMay’s draft deal
No deal
(There cant be a remain as there is no legal mechanism to reverse A50)
Go...
1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
deadslow said:
Surely it has to be
1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
2 isnt legally possible anymore, we would have to leave then apply again. So out of the only two options that would be possible under a peoples vote if it were to be given now, which would you chose?1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
dazwalsh said:
deadslow said:
Surely it has to be
1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
2 isnt legally possible anymore, we would have to leave then apply again. So out of the only two options that would be possible under a peoples vote if it were to be given now, which would you chose?1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
p1stonhead said:
dazwalsh said:
deadslow said:
Surely it has to be
1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
2 isnt legally possible anymore, we would have to leave then apply again. So out of the only two options that would be possible under a peoples vote if it were to be given now, which would you chose?1. continue with this self-indulgent destructive Tory madness
2. go back to our normal lives as leading Europeans
Even if you are the most ardent Brexiter, we'd be better to stay in for the time being and leave another time, when we have some semblance of a plan, and when all the (spineless coward) major players promise not to run away or play backstabbing from the comfort of the sidelines i.e when the Tories are no longer in power.
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