Discussion
bristolracer said:
Maybe chain restaurants have had their time? People want individual experiences.
I think they just want good, value for money experiences. We have a local Italian. Huge, varied menu, everything well cooked and service is excellent. It’s been thriving for years.
Less expensive than any of the celebrity ‘run’ chains.
captain_cynic said:
prand said:
227bhp said:
Look how many people in this thread are saying the food and the service was carp.
Ha, if you think that then you are seriously deluded. Chains like this fail on bad decisions, menus, sourcing, processes, controls, staff culture and poor management and spending all originating from Head Office. The end result is a poor product - food and service.I tend to avoid celebrity endorsed chains because you're paying for the name on the door, not the quality of the food.
The majority of businesses, and therefore casualties, in the sector are neither named after nor endorsed by celebrities.
This business did not fail simply because it was trading on the JO name, if failed due to market conditions and a lack of investment. In the sites where capital expenditure was made LFLs were up, in those where there was no investment sales took a pounding. There were only two sites receiving investment. The business has no PE money in it and was gobbling up cash from the wider group , a position.that was significantly accelerated as a result of post Brexit vote currency corrections.
It’s easy, and somewhat PHesque, to take the simplistic inverse snob position as regards this business but it would be a folly to do so. This business failed for the same reasons as numerous others have in the sector in recent times. The JO name draws more attention to the ills of the sector.
Edited to add - in the grand scheme of things this is a small matter extending to less than 30 units nationally The attention is disproportionate because of the ownership and other businesss have been quietly shuttering or putting on hold at least comparable numbers of units for months.
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 21st May 16:12
Vaud said:
zygalski said:
Exactly.
It's only 8 E-numbers FFS. Other than that, it's a nature's bounty of ingredients and can form an integral part of the kind of diet that we in the West are thriving on.
Lol.It's only 8 E-numbers FFS. Other than that, it's a nature's bounty of ingredients and can form an integral part of the kind of diet that we in the West are thriving on.
Or we could just take a piece or chicken or turkey and cook it in a milk/egg wash with breadcrumbs. 90+% meat.
34% turkey and all the added crap was not needed.
Why do people bother with University these days? Apparently you can go for a couple of meals with your mates/family at a mid-market restaurant and become a Captain of Industry with extensive business and entrepreneurial skills and, with the specialist insight into the restaurant trade that you now have, declare “nowt wrong wit Turkey Twizzlers”. 
Bloke deserves his success and a shame the squeeze from all directions stuffed up the restaurant side. Tough business.
Bloke deserves his success and a shame the squeeze from all directions stuffed up the restaurant side. Tough business.
Exige77 said:
Brooking10 said:
Exige77 said:
Maybe it’s just the end of the road for formula restaurants ?
Nando’s.People love Nando’s, I know my lot do.
Jamie’s problem, despite what the sages of PH say, was not Jamie the brand, it was lack of investment and differentiation in the most crowded sector of the CD market.
Teddy Lop said:
we ate in a London airport branch some years ago now, it was what you'd expect - a wee bit better than other big chains, but not challenging the order of the day. Jamie Oliver's one of those people who seem to get people queuing up bursting with enthusiasm to knock him down for reasons that are never quite clear, bit like Lewis Hamilton and others.
The restaurant failure is more a statement of venture capitol debt fueled excessive expansion in big $ prime locations losing any specialness his name might have lent it becoming just another big chain in a cut throat industry.
In fairness there was no PE money in JO, (but admittedly a reasonable chunk of straight bank lending) and it was in the grand scheme of things a small concern with approx 40 sites at its peak. It attracts a disproportionate level of attention because of his name. The restaurant failure is more a statement of venture capitol debt fueled excessive expansion in big $ prime locations losing any specialness his name might have lent it becoming just another big chain in a cut throat industry.
The underlying issue was under investment not over expansion. As I mentioned earlier in the very small number sites where money was spent on updating premises and offering LFLs increased.
There’s no doubt he put a lot of cash into this but doesn’t have a bottomless pit and had to make a difficult call.
Leithen said:
Brooking10 said:
In fairness there was no PE money in JO, (but admittedly a reasonable chunk of straight bank lending) and it was in the grand scheme of things a small concern with approx 40 sites at its peak. It attracts a disproportionate level of attention because of his name.
The underlying issue was under investment not over expansion. As I mentioned earlier in the very small number sites where money was spent on updating premises and offering LFLs increased.
There’s no doubt he put a lot of cash into this but doesn’t have a bottomless pit and had to make a difficult call.
Are you in the industry Brooking10?The underlying issue was under investment not over expansion. As I mentioned earlier in the very small number sites where money was spent on updating premises and offering LFLs increased.
There’s no doubt he put a lot of cash into this but doesn’t have a bottomless pit and had to make a difficult call.
R Mutt said:
Is this a rare case of customer attitudes being as relevant as the economic factors here?
I mean it's a fake Italian, a chain and overpriced, tourist fodder. Jamie is passe. Whereas Carluccio's despite being owned by a billion dollar conglomerate is the real deal.
Carluccios has taken its fair share of pain too though in recent times, undertaking a CVA and exiting sites last year. I mean it's a fake Italian, a chain and overpriced, tourist fodder. Jamie is passe. Whereas Carluccio's despite being owned by a billion dollar conglomerate is the real deal.
Where the deep pocketed parent helped significantly was injecting a big slug of cash in post CVA to update the offering.
A good example of why CVAs on their own rarely work for longer term sustainability.
C70R said:
Honestly, the food was absolutely fine, and it really wasn't hugely more expensive.
It wasn't haute cuisine, but none of the other mass Italian chains are offering nocellara olives, octopus stew or truffled eggs.
Some people just have a major chip on their shoulder when it comes to Jamie Oliver.
I do get surprised when I hear about people going to Jamie's Italian and expecting a "special" meal.
I think that's good summary,It wasn't haute cuisine, but none of the other mass Italian chains are offering nocellara olives, octopus stew or truffled eggs.
Some people just have a major chip on their shoulder when it comes to Jamie Oliver.
I do get surprised when I hear about people going to Jamie's Italian and expecting a "special" meal.
Far too much character assasination underpinned by little direct experience either as a consumer or operator/observer pervading some posts.
BrabusMog said:
You agreed with another poster regarding the dislike for Oliver.
I presume you are unfamiliar with the brand standard requirements of many QSR's (I get that Jamie's isn't but on something like chips anyone would try and fudge something), because staff behaviour is important. Very important.
I asked earlier to another poster if they did voucher deals at Jamie's. I don't know if they diD. But all the others do and, I suspect, that is a big draw for punters.
I think you're due a parrot as regards the context of C70's most recent direct reference to Mr Oliver.........I presume you are unfamiliar with the brand standard requirements of many QSR's (I get that Jamie's isn't but on something like chips anyone would try and fudge something), because staff behaviour is important. Very important.
I asked earlier to another poster if they did voucher deals at Jamie's. I don't know if they diD. But all the others do and, I suspect, that is a big draw for punters.
Vaud said:
craigjm said:
It is just his UK places that have closed? Noticed his Johannesburg place was still trading tonight
Franchise rather than owned?Neither is Fifteen in Cornwall as that’s also franchised.
BrabusMog said:
Coin Slot. said:
Why does Pizza Express seemingly escape the ‘death of the high street’ ?
It’s a chain, just like Jamie’s, F&B or any other of the high street/leisure park places so what’s their secret?
Quality product, decent price, also pretty much first to the market in the UK and diversified well. It’s a chain, just like Jamie’s, F&B or any other of the high street/leisure park places so what’s their secret?
Vandenberg said:
I'm yet to find an Italian meal that doesn't taste like overpriced warmed up vomit. It's the ultimate in foodie cons.
Not sure about the vomit reference - I like Italian But generally it’s cheap food, sold at high prices! Then there’s the drinks @ £5 a bottle of £1 beer.
Pasta is cheap as chips... Doesn’t matter what you call it, it’s hard to justify £20+ for Spaghetti !
WinkleHoff said:
Very mediocre restaurants, visited Bath and Guildford. It was pants.
He has sought to trade his own person, being a brand that it is. The reality of that is that people have probably tired of him a little, particularly as he became increasingly politicised about Brexit etc. Part of the celeb elite delusion of grandeur. Nobody wants to hear that stuff. People would rather eat at a more faceless chain for better quality, because when they are tucking in to their ravioli they don't have to think about him and his opinions.
What “delusion” are you suffering from that makes you think your opinion is shared by anyone else?He has sought to trade his own person, being a brand that it is. The reality of that is that people have probably tired of him a little, particularly as he became increasingly politicised about Brexit etc. Part of the celeb elite delusion of grandeur. Nobody wants to hear that stuff. People would rather eat at a more faceless chain for better quality, because when they are tucking in to their ravioli they don't have to think about him and his opinions.
Did you burst in to tears dining there and have to be taken to Nando’s by your family, or were you dining alone?
Plenty of facts out there regarding the challenges faced by the restaurant trade and your solution is be more faceless. Go and advise Bert Byron, Pete Prezzo, Steve Strada, Colin Cafe-Rouge and Zane Zizzi before it’s too late. Get them off the telly and make them keep their Brexit opinions to themselves!
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