Jamie Oliver

[redrabbit]

Wasn't impressed with Jamie's, as others have said, ordinary fare dressed up as something special, and having tons of JO branded tat for sale all over the gaff (this was in the bullring in Brum) wasn't a classy look. I too had assumed that Italian places in general would be taking a hit, but this piece suggests not.

https://www.cateringtoday.co.uk/comment/analysis/s...

[CABC]

alfaman said:

The Italian branded sector in the UK has become a bit pretentious / faux upmarket perhaps.

I used to work in the Finance team at Bella Pasta (and cafe rouge) about 20 years ago.

BP had no pretence of being upmarket and the service was fast as : sauces were pre made and pasta was prepped to 90% cooked so just needed a flash steam.

Was actually reasonably successful back then : predictable and quick service and food at a decent but not pretentious standard and atmosphere.

Maybe the issue with places like carluccios now is that the food is not much better than BP .. but pretends to be and is priced as if something slightly special. For sure the pasta sauces will be microwave in the bag

Edited by alfaman on Monday 19th August 17:13

the Whitbread era has a lot to answer for. CR was a sweet bistro chain back in the early nineties.

timely post, as this neatly sums up what i see as JOs problem. he (or his BiL) launched the chain at whitbread C.Rouge level whereas the world had already moved on to more inviting propositions. Wahaca is more recent but sums up the change well.

[craigjm]

You can only have so many burger, Indian, Chinese and Italian places IMO the market is saturated.

Wahaca is offering something different. That is not always a good thing though. Turtle Bay for instance should be great but the food is st and they survive on their drinks offers

[vikingaero]

There's a difference to being an amiable mockney tt on TV to translating that into running a restaurant successfully. JO's era is over and people are fed up with him and his constant branding...and whining everywhere.

There is no difference between a JO restaurant and Prezzo, ASK, and 1001 chain restaurants. The "£4 mil of his own cash" that he tried to shore up the company with pales into insignificance with the huge management and licensing fees being sucked out of the business for years.

[amgmcqueen]

Crap food, served in dirty restaurants, at extortionate prices was always going to be a recipe for disaster.

Blaming Brexit is just a pathetic excuse.

[T-195]

amgmcqueen said:

Crap food, served in dirty restaurants, at extortionate prices was always going to be a recipe for disaster.

Blaming Brexit is just a pathetic excuse.

Agreed.

[untakenname]

vikingaero said:

There's a difference to being an amiable mockney tt on TV to translating that into running a restaurant successfully. JO's era is over and people are fed up with him and his constant branding...and whining everywhere.

I find the whole concept naming an eating establishment after your first name to be very council.

Been in Jamie's once for a work meal years back and didn't think much of it, looks like the rest of the paying public voted with their feet as well.

The only chain Italian I'll eat in is Vapiano as it's decent vfm and you can see the food being cooked for you as you wait.

[JuniorD]

Didn’t even serve pizza ffs!

[anonymous-user]

untakenname said:

I find the whole concept naming an eating establishment after your first name to be very council.

Been in Jamie's once for a work meal years back and didn't think much of it, looks like the rest of the paying public voted with their feet as well.

The only chain Italian I'll eat in is Vapiano as it's decent vfm and you can see the food being cooked for you as you wait.

You’d hate Chez Bruce then .........

[anonymous-user]

vikingaero said:

There's a difference to being an amiable mockney tt on TV to translating that into running a restaurant successfully. JO's era is over and people are fed up with him and his constant branding...and whining everywhere.

There is no difference between a JO restaurant and Prezzo, ASK, and 1001 chain restaurants. The "£4 mil of his own cash" that he tried to shore up the company with pales into insignificance with the huge management and licensing fees being sucked out of the business for years.

How many millions of your own have you ever put into a business ?

[KTF]

amgmcqueen said:

Crap food, served in dirty restaurants, at extortionate prices was always going to be a recipe for disaster.

Blaming Brexit is just a pathetic excuse.

He didn’t blame Brexit as such, more that the aura around it reduced consumer confidence so they didn’t eat out as much.

At the end of the interview he did say it was an interesting time (or similar) for the trade now but he was glad to be able to watch it from the sidelines.

[Driver101]

redrabbit said:

Wasn't impressed with Jamie's, as others have said, ordinary fare dressed up as something special, and having tons of JO branded tat for sale all over the gaff (this was in the bullring in Brum) wasn't a classy look. I too had assumed that Italian places in general would be taking a hit, but this piece suggests not.

https://www.cateringtoday.co.uk/comment/analysis/s...

Was it ever dressed up as something special? To me it was just another chain. The quality and prices were just like other Italian chains.

The issue came because people were expecting Masterchef quality food for high street chain prices. It didn't pretend to be anything more than it was, but expectations were wrong.

[redrabbit]

Driver101 said:

redrabbit said:

Wasn't impressed with Jamie's, as others have said, ordinary fare dressed up as something special, and having tons of JO branded tat for sale all over the gaff (this was in the bullring in Brum) wasn't a classy look. I too had assumed that Italian places in general would be taking a hit, but this piece suggests not.

https://www.cateringtoday.co.uk/comment/analysis/s...

Was it ever dressed up as something special? To me it was just another chain. The quality and prices were just like other Italian chains.

The issue came because people were expecting Masterchef quality food for high street chain prices. It didn't pretend to be anything more than it was, but expectations were wrong.

I'd contend it was marketed as something special, hence the above average prices for basic dishes, the lengthy expositions on the source and quality of ingredients on the menu (undermined by subsequent revelations regarding its actual suppliers, IIRC), and remarkably expensive house wine. It obviously wasn't special at all, we agree on that.

[Burwood]

Andy Zarse said:

Brooking10 said:

Andy Zarse said:

I went once to a Jamie's, it was frankly overpriced crap.

Have you asked yourself why there was "falling demand"? I mean, are people not eating out anymore? Are other chains not prospering on the High St?

Or did Jamie's customers have a less than satisfactory experience for a variety of reasons and simply decide to eat elsewhere in future, pausing only to give the brand a proper rinsing on Tripadvisor?

Jamie's failed for one very simple reason; the market decided not to patronise it. End of. ASk yourself why.

The casual dining market is on its arse.

Hundred of unit closures over the past 18 months and more to come including at some very well known businesses.

JO’s collapse wasn’t by any stretch unique and in the broad scheme of things was smallish beer with the business’ total closure amounting to less jobs and units than some others’ rationalisations. It just attracts more headlines given the personality and a good bit of old fashioned tall poppy pruning.

On the contrary, this is classical market economics in action. Casual dining (and I am assuming you're including Jamie's in this description?) has never been more popular. More and more people eating out more often. A generation ago eating out was a treat. Now it's mainstream. The market recognised this and a plethora of chains popped up to fill demand. And they literally popped up everywhere. Some of them were even pretty good, to start with at least. But what the managements didn't factor in were changes in people's tastes. Italian food has become mundane. There's more exiting and new cuisines to try. In essence i contend that the market for italian food stayed static at best; the options to eat it expanded hugely. Consequently there's only so much trade to go around and this is why restaurant chains are failing.

I still have to queue to get a lunch table at my local Wagamama or even Wahaca but you can stroll straight into the Pizza Express/Zizzi/Prezzo/Ask/you name your identikit pseudo-Italian eatery and you tell them which table you'd like to sit at. The problems in the casual dining market, such as they are, are the out-dated business models they still rely upon.The fact of the matter is there are way too many Italian restaurants compared to the number punters, combined with high overheads, a mediocre product at an uncompetitive price. Result; misery.

Little of this is the customers' fault, nor is it the fault of the government, Brexit or any other blame deflection mechanism. Creative destruction in action.

Edited by Andy Zarse on Monday 19th August 13:26

Good post. Oliver was told his product was not good enough for the money. He chose to ignore the reviews and his own staff. He’s where he belongs now, at Shell gas stations. But never fear, he has a new vegetable cook book out and a new ‘kids health task force’.

[Driver101]

redrabbit said:

Driver101 said:

redrabbit said:

Wasn't impressed with Jamie's, as others have said, ordinary fare dressed up as something special, and having tons of JO branded tat for sale all over the gaff (this was in the bullring in Brum) wasn't a classy look. I too had assumed that Italian places in general would be taking a hit, but this piece suggests not.

https://www.cateringtoday.co.uk/comment/analysis/s...

Was it ever dressed up as something special? To me it was just another chain. The quality and prices were just like other Italian chains.

The issue came because people were expecting Masterchef quality food for high street chain prices. It didn't pretend to be anything more than it was, but expectations were wrong.

I'd contend it was marketed as something special, hence the above average prices for basic dishes, the lengthy expositions on the source and quality of ingredients on the menu (undermined by subsequent revelations regarding its actual suppliers, IIRC), and remarkably expensive house wine. It obviously wasn't special at all, we agree on that.

I remember the house wines were cheap especially when served by the 1l carafe.

I'm not sure how much prices varied with location against the competition, but my experience isn't what other people have sampled. It was directly similar to other chains.

[anonymous-user]

Burwood said:

Good post. Oliver was told his product was not good enough for the money. He chose to ignore the reviews and his own staff. He’s where he belongs now, at Shell gas stations. But never fear, he has a new vegetable cook book out and a new ‘kids health task force’.

You know he makes/made several times more from media and licensing than he ever did, or indeed would have done, from the restaurants ?

The reason why he exited restaurants was so as not to further contaminate the real money making part of brand Jamie.

He’s an impressive guy who has achieved more than 99% of the rest of us could imagine - and not just financially - from relatively humble beginnings.

As you can tell I find the tall poppying of JO really misplaced.

[CABC]

Brooking10 said:

You know he makes/made several times more from media and licensing than he ever did, or indeed would have done, from the restaurants ?

The reason why he exited restaurants was so as not to further contaminate the real money making part of brand Jamie.

He’s an impressive guy who has achieved more than 99% of the rest of us could imagine - and not just financially - from relatively humble beginnings.

As you can tell I find the tall poppying of JO really misplaced.

you seem to have an inside track?
it's an interesting debate around positioning etc rather than being personal (for most i think)
i understood the problem really lies with his BiL and that JO wasn't really that involved. big mistake letting him do it though.

[Burwood]

Brooking10 said:

Burwood said:

Good post. Oliver was told his product was not good enough for the money. He chose to ignore the reviews and his own staff. He’s where he belongs now, at Shell gas stations. But never fear, he has a new vegetable cook book out and a new ‘kids health task force’.

You know he makes/made several times more from media and licensing than he ever did, or indeed would have done, from the restaurants ?

The reason why he exited restaurants was so as not to further contaminate the real money making part of brand Jamie.

He’s an impressive guy who has achieved more than 99% of the rest of us could imagine - and not just financially - from relatively humble beginnings.

As you can tell I find the tall poppying of JO really misplaced.

It’s not tall poopy with me. I think he’s a massive hypocrite re force feeding the public on healthy eating. He’s fat himself and his kids food is garbage.

I know how he makes money.

[Burwood]

Brooking, didn’t a VC/equity firm buy Wagamama for a PE of 50+. Were you in the hospitality division of your firm or more generalist.

[So]

Brooking10 said:

You know he makes/made several times more from media and licensing than he ever did, or indeed would have done, from the restaurants ?

The reason why he exited restaurants was so as not to further contaminate the real money making part of brand Jamie

Which is why it's undesirable that there are still restaurants bearing his name that are poor.