Vegan extremists

[Rovinghawk]

LDN said:

Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself;

If only we were enlightened we'd all be vegan?

[LDN]

bobbo89 said:

LDN said:

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho.

Yep, proper beefcakes these vegans!

Indeed. It started with a sort of reinvention of the term. New debate sparked the reinvention, and then health advocates took the baton. It's over the last couple of years that veganism has been attributed a new kind of machismo. Again; this is not reason of itself to go vegan; just an indication of the shift in attitudes. Athletes often speak of faster healing and recovery, on a vegan diet for example; there's a movement of bodybuilders going vegan and being more trim and cut as a result. And so on and so forth.

[Rollin]

LDN said:

Rollin said:

People get turned off by vegan hyperbole and frequent hypocrisy.

You suggest 'breastfeeding from another species is not natural'. It's just ridiculous language. Why not say that drinking milk is not natural and suggest why?

It's like me suggesting that vegans eat pig food and it's not natural. It means nothing.

I wont be watching the videos suggested either as I can predict the content. More hyperbole, mixed with probable bad science and lies. It's always the same.

Did someone suggest that veganism is considered 'macho'? Seriously, is this an argument?

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho. It's not an argument for turning veganism; but it's an observation about the changing tide. Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself; you don't want your bubble bursting; it's a common occurrence!

I gave you the reasons for not watching them. Please don't suggest that videos funded and made by vegans are going to present a balanced opinion on this issue, it's laughable. I'm quite capable of educating myself thanks and have no concerns about 'bubble bursting'

[LDN]

Nanook said:

LDN said:

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho. It's not an argument for turning veganism; but it's an observation about the changing tide. Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself; you don't want your bubble bursting; it's a common occurrence!

No, it's not.

Vegan's can tell themselves that all they like, but it's not changing anyone else's view.

It's like that kid at school that insisted on being called by his cool new nickname, that he made up for himself.

You want to be vegan, carry on. You want to campaign about it, it's your right to do so.

You just can't expect anyone else to give a st, and that's where most vegan's get upset.

I disagree; it's one of the fastest growing social movements; and so there's not much to be upset about. I'm not sure it's anything like a made up nickname. Bizarre.

[LDN]

Rollin said:

LDN said:

Rollin said:

People get turned off by vegan hyperbole and frequent hypocrisy.

You suggest 'breastfeeding from another species is not natural'. It's just ridiculous language. Why not say that drinking milk is not natural and suggest why?

It's like me suggesting that vegans eat pig food and it's not natural. It means nothing.

I wont be watching the videos suggested either as I can predict the content. More hyperbole, mixed with probable bad science and lies. It's always the same.

Did someone suggest that veganism is considered 'macho'? Seriously, is this an argument?

Veganism is indeed being seen as the new macho. It's not an argument for turning veganism; but it's an observation about the changing tide. Attitudes are evolving alongside the real science coming to light. Of course you won't watch the films or educate yourself; you don't want your bubble bursting; it's a common occurrence!

I gave you the reasons for not watching them. Please don't suggest that videos funded and made by vegans are going to present a balanced opinion on this issue, it's laughable. I'm quite capable of educating myself thanks and have no concerns about 'bubble bursting'

Not all films or data on animal agriculture - and the health issues attributed to meat consumption are funded by vegans. Much of the data and science that is pro-meat; however, IS funded by meat and dairy producers. Interesting isn't it?

[bobbo89]

LDN said:

Indeed. It started with a sort of reinvention of the term. New debate sparked the reinvention, and then health advocates took the baton. It's over the last couple of years that veganism has been attributed a new kind of machismo. Again; this is not reason of itself to go vegan; just an indication of the shift in attitudes. Athletes often speak of faster healing and recovery, on a vegan diet for example; there's a movement of bodybuilders going vegan and being more trim and cut as a result. And so on and so forth.

There isn't a movement, just a few that have managed to achieve some decent results with a very strict, boring and expensive diet. They'll always say they feel better as they're trying to prove something!

If you genuinely believe what you're saying I can only think you live in your own little bubble!

[LDN]

Nanook said:

LDN said:

I disagree; it's one of the fastest growing social movements; and so there's not much to be upset about. I'm not sure it's anything like a made up nickname. Bizarre.

There's not much to be upset about?

Remind me what the thread is all about? Ah, death threats from vegans.

Yeah, perfectly calm and rational

Telling yourself that vegan's are seen as macho is deluded. It's just not the case at all.

I'm not telling myself anything. You're own views don't necessarily represent the change in attitudes; beginning around two years ago. When elite athletes such as Lewis Hamilton are pushing veganism; then there is bound to be a shift in attitudes. You can't deny,

[LDN]

bobbo89 said:

LDN said:

Indeed. It started with a sort of reinvention of the term. New debate sparked the reinvention, and then health advocates took the baton. It's over the last couple of years that veganism has been attributed a new kind of machismo. Again; this is not reason of itself to go vegan; just an indication of the shift in attitudes. Athletes often speak of faster healing and recovery, on a vegan diet for example; there's a movement of bodybuilders going vegan and being more trim and cut as a result. And so on and so forth.

There isn't a movement, just a few that have managed to achieve some decent results with a very strict, boring and expensive diet. They'll always say they feel better as they're trying to prove something!

If you genuinely believe what you're saying I can only think you live in your own little bubble!

There isn't a movement?

I think you're done here.

[bobbo89]

LDN said:

There isn't a movement?

I think you're done here.

Seriously, your local gym isn't going to become full of hench vegans, its just a few high profile people going through a fad and Lewis Hamilton is a perfect example of this!

Its all just another thing that your current Yuppie/Hipster/DINK/wker are doing and they'll soon get bored and move onto listening to synth again or something!

[LDN]

bobbo89 said:

LDN said:

There isn't a movement?

I think you're done here.

Seriously, your local gym isn't going to become full of hench vegans, its just a few high profile people going through a fad and Lewis Hamilton is a perfect example of this!

Its all just another thing that your current Yuppie/Hipster/DINK/wker are doing and they'll soon get bored and move onto listening to synth again or something!

OK, we can see where you head is at. You seem triggered... and maybe this debate isn't for you. No shame in it.

[Rovinghawk]

LDN said:

Not all films or data on animal agriculture - and the health issues attributed to meat consumption are funded by vegans. Much of the data and science that is pro-meat; however, IS funded by meat and dairy producers. Interesting isn't it?

Not all films or data on animal agriculture are funded by meat & dairy producers. Much of the data and science that is vegan; however, IS funded by vegans. Interesting isn't it?

See how your statement can be directed straight back without inaccuracy or loss of meaning?

Do you have any response for my earlier query regarding the absence of essential amino acids from a strict vegan diet?

[bobbo89]

LDN said:

OK, we can see where you head is at. You seem triggered... and maybe this debate isn't for you. No shame in it.

No, i just know what folk are like.

I've got two sisters who go through these phases, one recently decided to go dairy free and that lasted about 6 months. The other has just decided to go veggie and is considering going full vegan. I've told her to go for it knowing full well she'll back eating meat again by next summer!

My point is, the world isn't turning vegan and vegans will always be in a huge minority. We're not in the middle of some sort of huge shift in opinion merely just a bit of a phase where its the trendy thing to do. It'll die!

[TTwiggy]

Has the B12 issue been discussed?

[LDN]

Rovinghawk said:

LDN said:

Not all films or data on animal agriculture - and the health issues attributed to meat consumption are funded by vegans. Much of the data and science that is pro-meat; however, IS funded by meat and dairy producers. Interesting isn't it?

Not all films or data on animal agriculture are funded by meat & dairy producers. Much of the data and science that is vegan; however, IS funded by vegans. Interesting isn't it?

See how your statement can be directed straight back without inaccuracy or loss of meaning?

Do you have any response for my earlier query regarding the absence of essential amino acids from a strict vegan diet?

Which amino acids in particular? Please state. The elite athletes; such as Hamilton, as mentioned before; who claim to be at their very best, both physically and mentally; don't seem to be missing anything... neither do the study groups who are suffering less heart disease and related cancers. Interesting....... isn't it!

Whilst you're researching; you might come across just how strong the link is, between meat and disease... we can then talk more on that

[LDN]

bobbo89 said:

LDN said:

OK, we can see where you head is at. You seem triggered... and maybe this debate isn't for you. No shame in it.

No, i just know what folk are like.

I've got two sisters who go through these phases, one recently decided to go dairy free and that lasted about 6 months. The other has just decided to go veggie and is considering going full vegan. I've told her to go for it knowing full well she'll back eating meat again by next summer!

My point is, the world isn't turning vegan and vegans will always be in a minority. We're not in the middle of some sort of huge shift in opinion merely just a bit of a phase where its the trendy thing to do. It'll die!

You're sisters do indeed sound like fair weather trendsters. I would agree.

[Labradorofperception]

I can see the merit and argument behind a vegetarian or vegan diet.

The message is fine and there is much I agree with, it's usually the messenger that's the problem.

My facebook feed is not an echo chamber. I am perfectly happy to lock horns with mates who are pro-Brext/ Pro trump/ Pro Tommy Robinson or even worse, Leeds United supporters.

Howver, with one exception, I've hidden Vegan friends because everytime I logged on I was greeted by what I can only describe as "animal snuff movies". in full bloodied glory - a combination of Faces of Death meets Hieronymus Bosch.

I'm not squeemish - I have shot gutted or gralloched plenty of stuff, but it's the morale superiority, judgmentalism and smugness that boils my piss.



Derek - that campaigner will probably have been Carla Lane and or Bell Mooney - was it the kerfuffle at Brightlinsea?

[LDN]

Labradorofperception said:

I can see the merit and argument behind a vegetarian or vegan diet.

The message is fine and there is much I agree with, it's usually the messenger that's the problem.

My facebook feed is not an echo chamber. I am perfectly happy to lock horns with mates who are pro-Brext/ Pro trump/ Pro Tommy Robinson or even worse, Leeds United supporters.

Howver, with one exception, I've hidden Vegan friends because everytime I logged on I was greeted by what I can only describe as "animal snuff movies". in full bloodied glory - a combination of Faces of Death meets Hieronymus Bosch.

I'm not squeemish - I have shot gutted or gralloched plenty of stuff, but it's the morale superiority, judgmentalism and smugness that boils my piss.



Derek - that campaigner will probably have been Carla Lane and or Bell Mooney - was it the kerfuffle at Brightlinsea?

All fair points. The moral superiority and judgementalism I suppose is born from digesting (excuse the pun) the exact videos you say you cannot watch. I can see the link there.

[Rovinghawk]

LDN said:

Which amino acids in particular? Please state.

As I said earlier, dimly remembered food science classes suggested (uncertain as to exact numbers so please allow some latitude) of the 22 amino acids, 12 are present in vegan diets & 8 can be synthesised from those 12. 2 amino acids are not present in vegan diets and are needed for healthy living.

Please confirm where vegans get them.

TTwiggy has mentioned B12 & it would be nice if your answer could include that.

[Rollin]

LDN said:

Not all films or data on animal agriculture - and the health issues attributed to meat consumption are funded by vegans. Much of the data and science that is pro-meat; however, IS funded by meat and dairy producers. Interesting isn't it?

So what? I'm not the one taking the moral high ground based on biased media on either side. I see you're happy to see it pass and it says a lot. Must be the unnatural pig food you guzzle down. See? Hyperbole doesn't work.

We could discuss the effects on the environment of being vegan but I'm sure that is significantly offset, on an individual level, by things such as energy supplier/usage, car type etc in some cases. Maybe even yours?

[Labradorofperception]

LDN said:

All fair points. The moral superiority and judgementalism I suppose is born from digesting (excuse the pun) the exact videos you say you cannot watch. I can see the link there.

I never said I couldn't watch them - watched plenty. At least you don't get the smells like you do in a PM.

To be honest, they mostly seem to be analogue videos shot in the US or Philippines designed for shock value and not to advance or engage in a cogent argument.