Vegan extremists

[toppstuff]

Rollin said:

Better for the environment than flying in your meat protein replacements and fancy fruit and veg from all around the planet.

Quite literally every word in your post is both wrong and was never claimed and said in any post.

Are you unwell? Confused maybe?

[DoubleD]

toppstuff said:

Rollin said:

Better for the environment than flying in your meat protein replacements and fancy fruit and veg from all around the planet.

Quite literally every word in your post is both wrong and was never claimed and said in any post.

Are you unwell? Confused maybe?

Lets stick to facts rather than name calling.

[toppstuff]

DoubleD said:

Nobody will ever win this argument anyway. People believe what they want to believe.....and yes I am talking about both sides of the argument.

I prefer evidence -based beliefs. Throw in some ethics and there you go.

Cognitive dissonance is also bad for mental well being. Denial is not a river in Egypt. I am not denying you your choices - this IS a thread about veganism after all , so if the content makes you uncomfortable then I am sure the food and drink thread will have some decent meat-related foodie stuff for you.

[Kenny Powers]

It’s interesting to me that this recent huge push toward promoting the environmental virtues of veganism seems to be coinciding almost exactly with falling sales of grains and cereals as we are undergoing somewhat of a paradigm shift in nutritional science. Even the NHS are now officially endorsing low carbohydrate dietary strategies as intervention treatment for type 2 diabetes. A US study has just shown that there is no association at all between low carbohydrate diets and atherosclerosis etc.

It goes a lot deeper than that but this isn’t the place for that discussion. Suffice to say that suddenly we must all turn vegan or the planet will melt before our eyes. Coincidence or industry driven propaganda? You decide.

[DoubleD]

toppstuff said:

DoubleD said:

Nobody will ever win this argument anyway. People believe what they want to believe.....and yes I am talking about both sides of the argument.

I prefer evidence -based beliefs. Throw in some ethics and there you go.

Cognitive dissonance is also bad for mental well being. Denial is not a river in Egypt. I am not denying you your choices - this IS a thread about veganism after all , so if the content makes you uncomfortable then I am sure the food and drink thread will have some decent meat-related foodie stuff for you.

Im not sure what point you are trying to make, but thanks.

[toppstuff]

Kenny Powers said:

It’s interesting to me that this recent huge push toward promoting the environmental virtues of veganism seems to be coinciding almost exactly with falling sales of grains and cereals as we are undergoing somewhat of a paradigm shift in nutritional science. Even the NHS are now officially endorsing low carbohydrate dietary strategies as intervention treatment for type 2 diabetes. A US study has just shown that there is no association at all between low carbohydrate diets and atherosclerosis etc.

It goes a lot deeper than that but this isn’t the place for that discussion. Suffice to say that suddenly we must all turn vegan or the planet will melt before our eyes. Coincidence or industry driven propaganda? You decide.

I hear where you are coming from.

The meat lobby is incredibly powerful too, lets not forget that. It employs a LOT of people, especially in parts of developed countries like the US where jobs and politics are a powerful lobbying force.

It is interesting how things are changing. I think the idea of reducing meat consumption is more than just a fad now. It is a trend that is not going to stop. More people are being vegan , but I think in general a "flexatarian" life is where things are going. If that means that meat is only coming from high welfare, seasonal and local sources and factory farming of livestock starts to end, then its good for everyone.

[DoubleD]

toppstuff said:

If that means that meat is only coming from high welfare, seasonal and local sources and factory farming of livestock starts to end, then its good for everyone.

I agree. We should be getting as much of our food locally as possible with higher taxes for items that come from futher away. Ive seen things for sale in Tesco with "airfreighted for freshness" stickers on it. Not exactly environmentally friendly.

[stichill99]

LDN I don't really think you should call anybody wilfully ignorant. I cannot believe you are so blind about agricultural practice. If you want to believe every sensationalist media story about animal welfare then that's up to you. Do you believe all you read in the media? The video of the dairy cow that was lame was pathetic. She claimed it had a huge udder. The udder wasn't even filled. You had to use a photo from Lithuania of a stirk tied upside down. Why,could you not find any photos of this practice in the UK.
Their will always be rogue elements that do not treat animals as they should but do not claim this is widespread normal behaviour. Just because their has been a muslim grooming abuse gang in Rotherham I don't believe all muslims are the same! That is the theory you are working on.
The rise of the mega farm has a long way to go as I believe almost 80 % of the worlds food is grown by peasant/subsistence farmers.

[Rollin]

toppstuff said:

Rollin said:

toppstuff said:

Davos123 said:

Everything he's listed is an example of exploitation though?

If you are seriously comparing someones pet Labrador with a life of a factory pig, then this debate is at an end.

Meet the vegan.

Were those three pointless words really worth the effort?

I am not a vegan by the way, so the point does not even work.

He's a vegan. You aren't.
Read the thread title.

[Rollin]

toppstuff said:

Rollin said:

Stick to peddling that then.
The environmental, sustainability and health arguments don't add up.

OK, the earth is flat. Tobacco is good for you.

You crack on.

I can have a diet containing meat which is sustainable, healthy and environmentally friendly.
Every bit of research into this says so.
Stick to the squeamish and anthropomorphising reasons.

[Rollin]

toppstuff said:

Rollin said:

Better for the environment than flying in your meat protein replacements and fancy fruit and veg from all around the planet.

Quite literally every word in your post is both wrong and was never claimed and said in any post.

Are you unwell? Confused maybe?

Tell me why eating imported quinoa and avocados is better for the environment than me catching a fish in my local river?

From your posts, it seems you don't understand what being a vegan involves.
Maybe do a bit of reading and either ditch the dairy or the hypocrisy.

[untakenname]

I had the to work from home today due to Vegans.

I share a building with multiple companies and militant Vegans were protesting at the entrance about a certain company below us that provides certifications for meat products which affected all companies based in the building.

Was tempted to troll and order a just eat KFC to the protesters but thought the better of it, at least they gave us a heads up.

[DoubleD]

untakenname said:

I had the to work from home today due to Vegans.

I share a building with multiple companies and militant Vegans were protesting at the entrance about a certain company below us that provides certifications for meat products which affected all companies based in the building.

Was tempted to troll and order a just eat KFC to the protesters but thought the better of it, at least they gave us a heads up.

I cant see how that kind of protest would make any difference to how people feel about meat.

[toppstuff]

Rollin said:

Tell me why eating imported quinoa and avocados is better for the environment than me catching a fish in my local river?

From your posts, it seems you don't understand what being a vegan involves.
Maybe do a bit of reading and either ditch the dairy or the hypocrisy.

I’m not a vegan. Nor a hypocrite.
I’m not a troll either. I also don’t troll people about positions they haven’t even taken. Unlike you.

I have not said anything about importing quinoa or avocados. And I’ve said nothing about eating fish you catch. In fact, I’ve actually said several times in this thread that I support people eating local food that is locally reared - including meat.

This is the opposite you accuse me of, so either you are thinking I am someone else, you are being deliberately obtuse, or you have jumped to conclusions and not actually read anything I’ve said.

Well done on your total failure. Maybe you need more iron in your diet. It’s good for cognition.

[otolith]

Given the concerns about the effect of meat eating on climate, I am assuming that the meat eaters are the only sinners in this thread who own a car?

Edited by otolith on Saturday 19th January 02:51

[grumbledoak]

DoubleD said:

I cant see how that kind of protest would make any difference to how people feel about meat.

No. But it is going to reinforce what people already think about vegans.

[untakenname]

The protest was directed at the specific company below us in the building that puts the a mark on meals showing they are ethical though it caused issues impacting on everyone in the building which has a capacity of over a thousand.

Speaking to a colleague who had to stay in the building the protest wasn't violent but they had a video billboard and loud sound system which showed pigs being kept in poor conditions in the UK https://www.viva.org.uk/hogwood/action#RTDOA

He also said most the protesters were young females and didn't look like stereotypical militants so he spoke to a couple of them when leaving, I half expect him to now give up meat.

[Mothersruin]

Honey isn't acceptable for vegans due to the enslavement of bees.

I just actually read that in black and white.

Nutters.

[Davos123]

toppstuff said:

If you are seriously comparing someones pet Labrador with a life of a factory pig, then this debate is at an end.

Comparing and equating aren't the same thing but both involve exploitation. We have bred dogs for centuries to suit our use of them - that's exploitation. We break horses in so that they'll be subservient and let us ride them, that's exploitation.

[DoubleD]

Davos123 said:

toppstuff said:

If you are seriously comparing someones pet Labrador with a life of a factory pig, then this debate is at an end.

Comparing and equating aren't the same thing but both involve exploitation. We have bred dogs for centuries to suit our use of them - that's exploitation. We break horses in so that they'll be subservient and let us ride them, that's exploitation.

Would you accept a guide dog if you were blind?