A tax on red meat?...
Discussion
grumbledoak said:
The other point being glossed over is that humans are essentially carnivores that can tolerate vegetables. Many vegetarians and most vegans are malnourished, at least until they give up.
Why should we be aiming for a global population of ten billion chronically sick weaklings?
Why should we be aiming for a global population of ten billion chronically sick weaklings?
the naivety is strong in this one.Every point has been addressed and explained. But it comes down to this...
Evanivitch said:
grumbledoak said:
Did Key Stage 3 contrast the relative stomach and colon sizes and surface areas of carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores? What are humans closest to?
What foods are digested in the stomach?
Oh please go on, I have so much to learn...What foods are digested in the stomach?
grumbledoak said:
Evanivitch said:
I have.
Please, don't embarrass yourself by failing Key Stage 3 science.
Did Key Stage 3 contrast the relative stomach and colon sizes and surface areas of carnivores, omnivores, and herbivores? What are humans closest to?Please, don't embarrass yourself by failing Key Stage 3 science.
What foods are digested in the stomach?
Evanivitch said:
Oh please go on, I have so much to learn...
Yet more condescension. Does that come free with the malnutrition? Google it yourself if you are curious.I'm not trying to convince anyone to change. I am quite happy with my diet and my reasons for it. I just don't want your religion inflicted on me.
grumbledoak said:
Evanivitch said:
Oh please go on, I have so much to learn...
Yet more condescension. Does that come free with the malnutrition? Google it yourself if you are curious.I'm not trying to convince anyone to change. I am quite happy with my diet and my reasons for it. I just don't want your religion inflicted on me.
When people say "Google yourself" it's usually a sign that their sources aren't based on anything verifiable. Or even scientific.
Evanivitch said:
grumbledoak said:
Evanivitch said:
Oh please go on, I have so much to learn...
Yet more condescension. Does that come free with the malnutrition? Google it yourself if you are curious.I'm not trying to convince anyone to change. I am quite happy with my diet and my reasons for it. I just don't want your religion inflicted on me.
When people say "Google yourself" it's usually a sign that their sources aren't based on anything verifiable. Or even scientific.
Nowt dafter than folk; or some such thing.
I see nothing wrong in principle with the idea that we use tax to discourage behaviour that tends to lead to a cost to the tax payer. If you choose to do something that is likely to increase the burden on the NHS then it's reasonable for you to contribute more tax to fund it. I also think it's reasonable to discourage self-destructive behaviour for the sake of the individual even if they're not generating a financial cost, but that is a separate argument.
I don't think anyone seriously doubts that the average Western diet contains too much meat from a health perspective.
Global pop growth isn't really a problem. The issue is that eating habits and aspirations are increasing the demand for meat, and raising production in its current form to the level required to provide the developing world with Western volumes of meat is clearly not going to work.
But the alternative, particularly in a country like the UK, doesn't require everyone to become a veggie. There's plenty of grassland in the UK that isn't suitable for growing crops but can support livestock. And if you choose to grow crops using a rotation system, you usually allow the land to lie fallow every few years ... i.e. you let the grass grow. There are therefore some perfectly sustainable ways of producing some meat even before you consider throwing technology at the problem.
I don't think anyone seriously doubts that the average Western diet contains too much meat from a health perspective.
Global pop growth isn't really a problem. The issue is that eating habits and aspirations are increasing the demand for meat, and raising production in its current form to the level required to provide the developing world with Western volumes of meat is clearly not going to work.
But the alternative, particularly in a country like the UK, doesn't require everyone to become a veggie. There's plenty of grassland in the UK that isn't suitable for growing crops but can support livestock. And if you choose to grow crops using a rotation system, you usually allow the land to lie fallow every few years ... i.e. you let the grass grow. There are therefore some perfectly sustainable ways of producing some meat even before you consider throwing technology at the problem.
ATG said:
I don't think anyone seriously doubts that the average Western diet contains too much meat from a health perspective.
The only reason anyone would believe that is misinformation pushed by industry and religious nutters. Eating meat, and animal fats in particular, created us. Humans before agriculture were bigger than us, stronger than us, and hard larger brains. The introduction of agriculture was in fact very bad for our health.As to removing meat, adults can survive as vegans but they need supplements. Even then most are in fact malnourished, and many do give it up when their health finally fails. Babies on a vegan diet fail to thrive or die - how much clearer could that be?
grumbledoak said:
The only reason anyone would believe that is misinformation pushed by industry and religious nutters. Eating meat, and animal fats in particular, created us. Humans before agriculture were bigger than us, stronger than us, and hard larger brains. The introduction of agriculture was in fact very bad for our health.
As to removing meat, adults can survive as vegans but they need supplements. Even then most are in fact malnourished, and many do give it up when their health finally fails. Babies on a vegan diet fail to thrive or die - how much clearer could that be?
Aren’t you the chap that doubled down on us having the physiology of a carnivore; went off for a few hours to find proof - and realised you had it back to front?As to removing meat, adults can survive as vegans but they need supplements. Even then most are in fact malnourished, and many do give it up when their health finally fails. Babies on a vegan diet fail to thrive or die - how much clearer could that be?
You’re as dumb as they come.
ATG said:
But the alternative, particularly in a country like the UK, doesn't require everyone to become a veggie. There's plenty of grassland in the UK that isn't suitable for growing crops but can support livestock. And if you choose to grow crops using a rotation system, you usually allow the land to lie fallow every few years ... i.e. you let the grass grow. There are therefore some perfectly sustainable ways of producing some meat even before you consider throwing technology at the problem.
Few major incorrect facts here.Livestock doesn't eat grass all year. Infact for atleast a quarter of the year they will be few on either hay products or pellets. This can be upto 6 months the further north you head in the country (and where the majority of livestock farming is). So in fact you're growing arable crops to feed livestock regardless of the grassland available.
Secondly, going fallow doesn't mean letting the grass grow, not in modern farming. A variety of plants are used that nitrogen fix the soil and it's all very managed. It's not the middle ages anymore.
However, farmers do implement Set Aside. But that's far more a environmental and subsidies issue than it is crop production.
ATG said:
And if you choose to grow crops using a rotation system, you usually allow the land to lie fallow every few years ... i.e. you let the grass grow.
Who the f
k fallows land in the UK? Most grassland, grazing land anyway, will be permanent pasture. Some land used for forage will be in an arable crop rotation.
A typical arable rotation is wheat, wheat, break, wheat, wheat, different break. The break crops could be oilseed rape, peas, beans, linseed, root crops.
Most land that is still permanent pasture is unsuitable for cropping due to topography, soil type, field size, local weather patterns etc. If you can't operate a 24 metre wide sprayer in a field, it's no good for cropping.
I could educate you on feed crops like feed wheat rather than milling, why they're grown to feed animals rather than people, but I'm going out for chips and maybe a beer.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff