UN to investigate extreme poverty in the UK

[dudleybloke]

Blair's Labour classed children sharing a bedroom as living in poverty so the metric depends on who is doing the measuring.

[JagLover]

dudleybloke said:

Blair's Labour classed children sharing a bedroom as living in poverty so the metric depends on who is doing the measuring.

Well I grew up "living in poverty" then

In a suburban London house now valued at £600K+

[Sticks.]

kurt535 said:

id have to shine a torch on IDS for kick starting the approach so id argue it has been politically motivated and, sadly, whether it labour or conservative, they have their agendas.

What struck me at the time was that this was presented as being motivated by the state of the nation's finances. OK, but on NPE even then there was much discussion about the £30bn 'leak' in tax revenues. Govt didn't do anything about this until it was taken up by the news media, raising some high profile cases.

Benefit cuts = a Conservative vote winner; fixing tax loopholes, not so.

That being said, that's not the only reason for poverty, however you wish to measure it.

[anonymous-user]

kurt535 said:

...the person on here scoffing at a child asking for an alarm clock has lived a very sheltered, scum ball existence...

Without re-reading the thread I don't think anyone did and you're getting yourself all upset for no reason. They questioned whether the problem was in fact poverty or his 2 alcoholic parents being neglectful. Anecdotes of substance abuse and poor parenting, whilst very sad, don't tell us anything about the level of poverty in the UK; stating so is not to deny the existence of poverty or even opine on it's prevalence.

[Ian Geary]

Report out today:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/22/u...

Seems to be a case of "oh yes it is...oh no it isn't" between the US lawyer rapporteur and the DWP.

Without rehashing the previous 7 pages, I think a lot of relative poverty goes unseen, and there will be cases of absolute poverty, which should be completely preventable by good engagement with the correct agencies.

But the report seems very politically slanted, prone to flights of fancy in some cases.

I don't know how the un choose these investigations, but I can't believe the welfare state in say, the USA could in any way compare to the level provided to uk citizens.

The guy seems to be holding the UK up to some sort of gold standard.

I recall a UN housing expert criticising social housing some years ago...she came from Brazil, a country that has totally eradicated slums and has world leading standards of housing (not).

Like I say, maybe these experts go everywhere to criticise everyone, but it does seem like they should start off in their own countries.

[JagLover]

Ian Geary said:

I don't know how the un choose these investigations, .

They use the UN to settle political scores in western countries and discredit the UN and its proper missions in the process. That is how these investigations get "chosen".

[austinsmirk]

I wish these experts would have a day with me in social housing. I've rarely seen poverty.

what I see is people churning out children with no thought or consequence to their actions, how they will provide/care/raise them

no effort whatsoever to find work, stay in school, study, achieve anything

getting disability or carers allowance is a thing to aim for

growing up in generations after generation, where no one ever works.

Blaming the brown people for taking their jobs, which they wouldn't want to do anyway, as its beneath your average tracksuit, tat covered white man/women

I'm sat here, with plenty of good quality homes to give away- I can't- the social housing waiting lists fail to produce applicants. Just let an £8m scheme of 40 houses. I couldn't find a single person in actual housing need to give them to. I let them all to generic applicants.

we've created an amazing culture and society where you can just bumble through life and the state just provides mana from heaven, no matter what.

Not sure social media and TV helps now, whereby you can become famous, be rich, for having no actual talent, trade, anything. does that help kids to aspire to putting their head down and working ?

[paulwoof]

I like austin posts, It saves me the hassle of writing out the exact same from my experiences.

[R Mutt]

Deep Thought said:

Yes, its very sad. Some people i know have children who dont have the latest mobile iPhones.

Terrible.

I'm not sure why this is considered some sort of Daily Mail style comment, when it is so accurate. Presumably it's dismissed as anecdotal because it merely applies to every 'poor' family we know.

[R Mutt]

austinsmirk said:

I wish these experts would have a day with me in social housing. I've rarely seen poverty.

growing up in generations after generation, where no one ever works.

I was amused to read an article dismissing this as a myth because they could only find several thousand families of whom 3 generations had never been in work. And these weren't even in the former mining and industrial towns.

3 of those didn't even have Sky!

[Fat Fairy]

R Mutt said:

austinsmirk said:

I wish these experts would have a day with me in social housing. I've rarely seen poverty.

growing up in generations after generation, where no one ever works.

I was amused to read an article dismissing this as a myth because they could only find several thousand families of whom 3 generations had never been in work. And these weren't even in the former mining and industrial towns.

3 of those didn't even have Sky!

NO SKY!

Oh, the Humanity!!!..........

FF

[InitialDave]

R Mutt said:

3 of those didn't even have Sky!

I can't remember where it was, but there was a semi-parody 'what class are you?' quiz which had one of the questions as "do you have satellite TV?"
The scoring was:
Lower class - "Of course"
Middle class - "No, the dishes are ugly"
Upper class - "Can't afford it old boy!"

[Baby Shark doo doo doo doo]

paulwoof said:

I like austin posts, It saves me the hassle of writing out the exact same from my experiences.

Although I have witnessed poverty. Both parents lost their jobs at the same factory and ended up with a house they couldn’t afford the mortgage on. They didn’t know how to play the system so sold the house and ended up living in a £350 caravan for 6 months while they sorted themselves out (thankfully now back on track with their lives).

Underclass don’t seem to be the ones suffering, it’s those in the middle who are seeing their jobs exported.

[Ian Geary]

R Mutt said:

Deep Thought said:

Yes, its very sad. Some people i know have children who dont have the latest mobile iPhones.

Terrible.

I'm not sure why this is considered some sort of Daily Mail style comment, when it is so accurate. Presumably it's dismissed as anecdotal because it merely applies to every 'poor' family we know.

Probably because it's easier to shut down (or "no platform" in modern parlance) discussion about a topic rather than have to do all the tedious stuff of learning and understanding an issue.

Opinion is just entreched and polarised on this issue though, based on your net transfer to/from the welfare system.

I think the housing cost issue could do with better government policies though, but housing has always cost a lot. It's just there hasn't always been a huge swathe of (mostly) late aged people with low housing costs that make the costs "relatively" higher for those who are younger.

[Ian Geary]

Ian Geary said:

Probably because it's easier to shut down (or "no platform" in modern parlance) discussion about a topic rather than have to do all the tedious stuff of learning and understanding an issue.

Opinion is just entreched and polarised on this issue though, based on your net transfer to/from the welfare system.

I think the housing cost issue could do with better government policies though, but housing has always cost a lot. It's just there hasn't always been a huge swathe of (mostly) late aged people with low housing costs that make the costs "relatively" higher for those who are younger.

although I do recognise the irony of me moaning about shutting down debate without understanding the issue fully, whilst I am in fact dismissing the report of someone who has spent several months studying the issue because I don't like what he's saying.

Though in my case: it's fine because obviously I'm right

[austinsmirk]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If you refer back to my point of letting an £8m social housing scheme (the identical sale units sold for £225k a piece- so pretty decent) .......... it depends on whom in the association does the letting. In my company, a similar new build scheme was so poorly let/managed, it was a ghetto on day one. All let to "single mums"- guess what, all the Asian drug dealing, wanna be gangsta boyfriends drift in to live there and cause carnage. One guy is running a garage on the street "F you" to anyone that complains about his 8 scrap cars he has parked on the public road. oil draining out everywhere, low loaders...........we're talking people who the law and common decency doesn't touch.

I watched colleagues line a meeting room with flip chart paper- one per household of all the ASB, per tenancy- just lawless.

all because " the system says you must follow the housing priority list". well the managers involved were too stupid/daft to act with some common sense.


I let another scheme in a rural village- the houses for sale were from £650K to £950K (this is Yorkshire folks where mini's won't impress and we only accept Porsche SUV's, don't forget). I couldn't find good enough people to house into the adjacent 12 social rented units. we'd turn up to inspect the potential tnts homes, to possibly offer them a one off dream opportunity- to find people living in squalor- not even a vague attempt to show us they can keep a house clean.


anyway- the last 40 new build units I let- full and total social cleansing and engineering. I'm only housing decent people that can respect what they are getting. Sod housing the person pretending to be in need on a waiting list for 4 years, having refused 10 houses. yr not in need.


I wouldn't live vaguely near any social housing development. Far too risky.

here's a quick tale:

my officer sorts out advance Universal credit payments for a young couple, to get their rent paid, food in etc. they get it. she goes round to collect rent and make sure they're budgeting.

they've spent an entire months money in one day at sports direct and buying a new PS4. no rent and no money for food/bills for the next month.

and again:

officer rings tnt to chase a nominal payment for rent.

tnt hasn't got it, she sent a taxi last night to the local curry house to pick her up a fish masala naan. £15 I think it was.


In my life I've never sent a taxi anywhere to do anything. why would you ? Its a different world out there. But don't worry- Lord Farage or Citizen Corbyn will make it all better for you. It'll all change once those disgusting foreign people aren't here. You'll all be fully employed.

employed you say ?

get out of bed and work you say ?

Hmmmm, hang on.......................

[R Mutt]

The middle have never had it so good. Blair was rather generous to the poor too. Which is fine but in the form of cash it never really brought about long term growth except to Murdock and Ashley. Same with the now declining PPP funded services now eating up disproportionate amounts of the budget. It's the same people who bemoan cuts that are insistent that people should have little luxuries like fags, booze, Sky, iPhones and Nike trainers.

[BlackLabel]

guardian said:

The “endlessly repeated” mantra about rising employment overlooks that “close to 40% of children are predicted to be living in poverty two years from now

‘40% of children living in poverty’? Find that very difficult to believe. And if the author is lying about such stats then what else are they lying about?

Ian Geary said:

Report out today:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/22/u...

Seems to be a case of "oh yes it is...oh no it isn't" between the US lawyer rapporteur and the DWP.

Without rehashing the previous 7 pages, I think a lot of relative poverty goes unseen, and there will be cases of absolute poverty, which should be completely preventable by good engagement with the correct agencies.

But the report seems very politically slanted, prone to flights of fancy in some cases.

I don't know how the un choose these investigations, but I can't believe the welfare state in say, the USA could in any way compare to the level provided to uk citizens.

The guy seems to be holding the UK up to some sort of gold standard.

I recall a UN housing expert criticising social housing some years ago...she came from Brazil, a country that has totally eradicated slums and has world leading standards of housing (not).

Like I say, maybe these experts go everywhere to criticise everyone, but it does seem like they should start off in their own countries.

[markcoznottz]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

They will be moaned at so much, bins, music, visitors driving fast, barking dogs, grass not mown, that eventually they will go, or in your example not move in at all.

[Brave Fart]

austinsmirk, thank you for your posts, they are very honest and revealing. May I ask a question? Why is it that upmarket developments must include x% of social housing? Those paying £450k plus definitely do not want social housing near them (criticise all you like; it's true) and, as you've highlighted, those on benefit don't really want to live there and feel intimidated by £50k SUV's parked around them. I mean, who wins here?
Wouldn't it be better to build separate developments for the two groups? For instance, "affordable" homes could be near public transport and within reach of part time jobs in urban areas.
I realise this all sounds very Hyacinth Bouquet, but I just don't see how mandated social housing percentages can ever work. Certainly where I live, almost all social problems are caused by housing association occupants - sorry, but it's true.