45th President of the United States, Donald Trump. (Vol 6)
Discussion
vonuber said:
I've noticed similar responses involving Farage as well- everything is a smear or attack.
I'm inclined to agree: Slightly OT, but I'd seen on my facebook news feed yesterday a posting a picture of the Brexit party logo urging people to vote. Fair enough, everyone is entitled to their opinion. When people commented that they wouldn't, and that they didn't much care for the Brexit party (and weren't rude about it, I might add), I was surprised by the vitriol, glee and general obnoxiouness of the responses the poster made. I can't help but think that the further left or right you go, the less able people are to give their ideological views in a coherent way witthout resorting to insulting those that disagree with them.
IanH755 said:
"Orange man bad"
As an aside to the various posters that keep trotting out that "Orange Man Bad" nonsense: The whole point of that meme originally was the argument of accepting what the media are saying without any form of critical thinking. By looking at the same media and just saying "Orange Man Bad" without considering its content, you're doing exactly the same. And making yourself look ill-informed and unoriginal in the process. Maybe try and provide an actual explanation instead of insulting those that disagree with you. That's what current political discourse needs at the moment.Holy Moly !
Brexit almost got Donald off the front page ! Things must be bad over here.
It will be interesting to see how the 2020 Dem candidate does with the success Donald has got by putting money into pockets ( whilst increasing the debt, ie all borrowed ) compared to his fight with China which puts an anchor on any gains made.
Brexit almost got Donald off the front page ! Things must be bad over here.
It will be interesting to see how the 2020 Dem candidate does with the success Donald has got by putting money into pockets ( whilst increasing the debt, ie all borrowed ) compared to his fight with China which puts an anchor on any gains made.
Tallow said:
As an aside to the various posters that keep trotting out that "Orange Man Bad" nonsense: The whole point of that meme originally was the argument of accepting what the media are saying without any form of critical thinking. By looking at the same media and just saying "Orange Man Bad" without considering its content, you're doing exactly the same. And making yourself look ill-informed and unoriginal in the process. Maybe try and provide an actual explanation instead of insulting those that disagree with you. That's what current political discourse needs at the moment.
Hi Tallow, Just to clarify my point, re: "Orange Man Bad" - my post never mentioned the media itself in any way, shape or form, so I'm interested in how you came to believe my posted linked OMB to the media? As an explanation for my use of it, my post used OMB whilst referred to people such as Byker28i, who fills the thread with "link and run" posts, where he posts a link to an anti-Trump story, adds a quote from the story or his own rewording of the story, and does so dozens of times per page. As the news article isn't discussed in his posts my post, which said "We get it..........OMB etc", is therefore used to criticise the poster (using the NPC meme), not the media.
The "Blind" section of my post referred to people being so anti-Trump that they are unable to see any positives (i.e. blind) because they are only looking for negatives. So news stories showing lower taxes, people having more money, more jobs, rising popularity etc (if you believe those to be true) are ignored and being "blind" to the positives whilst only looking at the negatives makes it hypocritical when people say they don't/can't/won't understand what makes Trump electable.
So when someone who is pro-Trump (or even fairly neutral-Trump) posts on here, they don't get "discussion" they just get insults inferring that they are racists etc, so those neutral/pro-Trump people leave and the echo chamber of anti-Trump "hate" grows stronger meaning there is little to no rational adult discussion left in this thread. There is just anti/pro-Trump people insulting each other but very little researched, balanced political debate taking into account both sides of the story because by this point, after 3 years of fighting, the sides are so entrenched there is just no common ground. For myself,
I'm fairly "Trump Neutral" (which is a claim never believed by anti-Trumpers as I "must" be a secret pro-Trumper!!!!), as I believe Trump does both good and bad things but you can't state that on here as you get harangued by the massive number of anti-Trump folks on here (compared to pro-Trump ones) who absolutely refuse to believe that you can be neutral regarding Trump, which makes it difficult to discuss anything Trump does well at.
Hope that explains my stance on this particular thread.
p1stonhead said:
“Get a camera and we will all tell the world I wasn’t annoyed at the meeting yesterday! Tell them!”
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1131658573...
Ugh. People wearing hats inside. Very impolite. https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1131658573...
IanH755 said:
The "Blind" section of my post referred to people being so anti-Trump that they are unable to see any positives (i.e. blind) because they are only looking for negatives. So news stories showing lower taxes, people having more money, more jobs, rising popularity etc (if you believe those to be true) are ignored and being "blind" to the positives whilst only looking at the negatives makes it hypocritical when people say they don't/can't/won't understand what makes Trump electable.
You clearly have zero idea of who has discussed what in this thread and have just jumped in for a bit of light trolling.All of the news stories you've mentioned have been discussed at length in here and where a (vanishingly rare) incontrovertible Good Thing has happened that has been acknowledged by the very people you're accusing of being blind.
Fact is, there's almost nothing of worth he's achieved and the few headline 'wins' or 'promises kept' have usually been at the expense of something or someone else, or will have worse knock on effects down the road (e.g. tax cuts). The fact that many people in here value those somethings or someone elses above the so-called achievements, or can see the knock-on effects, isn't blindness. It's simply a difference of opinions or priorities.
As to your last jab by this stage in the game we understand very well indeed what makes Trump electable, so I'm afraid accusing of 'just not getting it' in time-honoured thread Trumpist style just doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Try harder.
minimoog said:
Fact is, there's almost nothing of worth he's achieved and the few headline 'wins' or 'promises kept' have usually been at the expense of something or someone else, or will have worse knock on effects down the road (e.g. tax cuts). The fact that many people in here value those somethings or someone elses above the so-called achievements, or can see the knock-on effects, isn't blindness. It's simply a difference of opinions or priorities.
Bump stocks ban, is the only good thing he's done, which we discussed at lengthIanH755 said:
Hi Tallow,
Just to clarify my point, re: "Orange Man Bad" - my post never mentioned the media itself in any way, shape or form, so I'm interested in how you came to believe my posted linked OMB to the media? As an explanation for my use of it, my post used OMB whilst referred to people such as Byker28i, who fills the thread with "link and run" posts, where he posts a link to an anti-Trump story, adds a quote from the story or his own rewording of the story, and does so dozens of times per page. As the news article isn't discussed in his posts my post, which said "We get it..........OMB etc", is therefore used to criticise the poster (using the NPC meme), not the media.
Hi IanJust to clarify my point, re: "Orange Man Bad" - my post never mentioned the media itself in any way, shape or form, so I'm interested in how you came to believe my posted linked OMB to the media? As an explanation for my use of it, my post used OMB whilst referred to people such as Byker28i, who fills the thread with "link and run" posts, where he posts a link to an anti-Trump story, adds a quote from the story or his own rewording of the story, and does so dozens of times per page. As the news article isn't discussed in his posts my post, which said "We get it..........OMB etc", is therefore used to criticise the poster (using the NPC meme), not the media.
An interesting way to criticise someone who posts stories and the links to them. We aren't allowed on Pistonheads to copy the whole story so I try to give enough details to provide the crux of the story and provide the link so others can read the full details and the source.
IanH755 said:
The "Blind" section of my post referred to people being so anti-Trump that they are unable to see any positives (i.e. blind) because they are only looking for negatives. So news stories showing lower taxes, people having more money, more jobs, rising popularity etc (if you believe those to be true) are ignored and being "blind" to the positives whilst only looking at the negatives makes it hypocritical when people say they don't/can't/won't understand what makes Trump electable.
Actually we've discussed at length why trump was elected, what factors drove people to vote for him and we've often discussed trumps popularity and the jobs figures. See posts by Countdown etc. In fact when we discuss the polls we also discuss the breakdown of the figures as these often show a Dem/GOP split.
Actually we've discussed at length why trump was elected, what factors drove people to vote for him and we've often discussed trumps popularity and the jobs figures. See posts by Countdown etc. In fact when we discuss the polls we also discuss the breakdown of the figures as these often show a Dem/GOP split.
IanH755 said:
So when someone who is pro-Trump (or even fairly neutral-Trump) posts on here, they don't get "discussion" they just get insults inferring that they are racists etc, so those neutral/pro-Trump people leave and the echo chamber of anti-Trump "hate" grows stronger meaning there is little to no rational adult discussion left in this thread. There is just anti/pro-Trump people insulting each other but very little researched, balanced political debate taking into account both sides of the story because by this point, after 3 years of fighting, the sides are so entrenched there is just no common ground.
I can't speak for others but as I continuously say, my interest in this is that I believe we are living through another historical moment similar but much worse than Nixon, another period in US history that will have a long term impact.IanH755 said:
I'm fairly "Trump Neutral" (which is a claim never believed by anti-Trumpers as I "must" be a secret pro-Trumper!!!!), as I believe Trump does both good and bad things but you can't state that on here as you get harangued by the massive number of anti-Trump folks on here (compared to pro-Trump ones) who absolutely refuse to believe that you can be neutral regarding Trump, which makes it difficult to discuss anything Trump does well at.
Hope that explains my stance on this particular thread.
This runs both ways, you've accused me of being a trump haterHope that explains my stance on this particular thread.
Since IanH755 wants to discuss jobs, shall we mention what impact his tarrifs are having on jobs.
Trump's aluminum tariffs have driven up the cost of cans and in turn have cost the beer industry nearly 40,000 jobs since 2016
A report by two trade groups showed U.S. beer-industry jobs dropped 40,000 since 2016 as metal tariffs boosted aluminum-can costs, leading to a drop in investment. The biennial study by the Beer Institute and National Beer Wholesalers Association said direct, indirect and induced jobs fell to 2.19 million in 2018 from 2.23 million in 2016.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23...
Trump's aluminum tariffs have driven up the cost of cans and in turn have cost the beer industry nearly 40,000 jobs since 2016
A report by two trade groups showed U.S. beer-industry jobs dropped 40,000 since 2016 as metal tariffs boosted aluminum-can costs, leading to a drop in investment. The biennial study by the Beer Institute and National Beer Wholesalers Association said direct, indirect and induced jobs fell to 2.19 million in 2018 from 2.23 million in 2016.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-23...
and whilst theres been a 2.6 million jobs growth in the last 12 months, that isn't unusual and is in fact lower than previous years
On its face, this isn’t a bad jobs report — but it’s also not an unusual one.
We’ve now created about 2.6 million jobs over the last 12 months — solid, but no more than in 2014, and slightly fewer than in 2015. This remains true no matter what Twitter says.
The 0.2% month-over-month wage gain, is down slightly from recent months, and the 3.2% year-over-year gain is below what we saw late in the last two expansions. Adjusted for inflation, it also points to real wage gains similar to those in 2014 and 2015 when gasoline prices were pushing down overall price growth.
So please, let’s dispense with the notion that job growth has accelerated, that wage growth is skyrocketing or that the rate of decline in the unemployment rate has picked up. None of these is true.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/good-jobs-report...
All that has happened is that trends that were firmly in place by 2014 are still playing out.
On its face, this isn’t a bad jobs report — but it’s also not an unusual one.
We’ve now created about 2.6 million jobs over the last 12 months — solid, but no more than in 2014, and slightly fewer than in 2015. This remains true no matter what Twitter says.
The 0.2% month-over-month wage gain, is down slightly from recent months, and the 3.2% year-over-year gain is below what we saw late in the last two expansions. Adjusted for inflation, it also points to real wage gains similar to those in 2014 and 2015 when gasoline prices were pushing down overall price growth.
So please, let’s dispense with the notion that job growth has accelerated, that wage growth is skyrocketing or that the rate of decline in the unemployment rate has picked up. None of these is true.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/good-jobs-report...
All that has happened is that trends that were firmly in place by 2014 are still playing out.
3bn fake accounts removed from facebook in the last 6 months, thats an incredible number of accounts
https://www.apnews.com/d276ebdec5224398b9d70a6424b...
However they've said they're still going to leave up the faked footage of Pelosi
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/24...
https://www.apnews.com/d276ebdec5224398b9d70a6424b...
However they've said they're still going to leave up the faked footage of Pelosi
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/may/24...
Edited by Byker28i on Friday 24th May 18:36
Jerry Nadler taken to hospital today after fainting
Representative Jerrold Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, was taken to a hospital after apparently fainting during a news conference on Friday in Manhattan.
Mr. Nadler, 71, was seated at a table in a gymnasium at Public School 199 on the Upper West Side, where Mayor Bill de Blasio was heralding the expansion of New York City’s speed camera program.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/nyregion/jerry-...
He later tweeted:
(((Rep. Nadler)))
@RepJerryNadler
Appreciate everyone's concern. Was very warm in the room this morning, was obviously dehydrated and felt a bit ill. Glad to receive fluids and am feeling much better. Thank you for your thoughts.
10:00 AM - 24 May 2019
Representative Jerrold Nadler, the chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, was taken to a hospital after apparently fainting during a news conference on Friday in Manhattan.
Mr. Nadler, 71, was seated at a table in a gymnasium at Public School 199 on the Upper West Side, where Mayor Bill de Blasio was heralding the expansion of New York City’s speed camera program.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/24/nyregion/jerry-...
He later tweeted:
(((Rep. Nadler)))
@RepJerryNadler
Appreciate everyone's concern. Was very warm in the room this morning, was obviously dehydrated and felt a bit ill. Glad to receive fluids and am feeling much better. Thank you for your thoughts.
10:00 AM - 24 May 2019
Engelberger said:
Keep up the good work Byker.
Trump supporters are like Farage supporters and should be largely ignored.
It's interesting to see the criticism, everyone has a viewpoint, however I post items and views, always providing sources. It appears it's easier to criticise this than to provide alternative stories and sources. Trump supporters are like Farage supporters and should be largely ignored.
I'd just like to clarify that I was agreeing with Ian's general point around any defence of Trump being met with derision, which one poster immediately proved correct. Byker does post a lot of stuff but is clearly interested. I find it interesting to watch what is going on but don't have strong feelings either way with Trump at the moment.
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