Yellow vests - fuel protest day of action in France
Discussion
Wait, this is all over a 7.6 cent increase in the cost of a liter?
for 20000km/year, that's an extra 91 Euro a year by my calculations. (assuming 6l/100KM for a 15 year old clio diesel or something)
The French will protest anything.
No body likes extra taxes but its not as though the government will take the money and dump it in the channel.
What are the protestors suggesting they raise that revenue from instead?
for 20000km/year, that's an extra 91 Euro a year by my calculations. (assuming 6l/100KM for a 15 year old clio diesel or something)
The French will protest anything.
No body likes extra taxes but its not as though the government will take the money and dump it in the channel.
What are the protestors suggesting they raise that revenue from instead?
jakesmith said:
The ability to fire crap staff would help it’s nearly impossible in France
Or do you mean to be competitive they need to be able to lay off half the work force and run the company on zero hour contracts and depressed wages..... just as the country protests the increasing cost of living....
Derek Smith said:
The French system of law enforcement differs from that of the UK, but they have both tactical and strategic reserves in the case of riots
Unfortunately Derek the reserves in the U.K. are negligible The Met has around 5000 riot trainer officers of which about 700 are in the Territorial Support Group
The rest of the country has around 10000 riot trained officers of which only a few hundred are trained to Level 1 (TSG standard)
Many forces have drastically cut the numbers of P.O. trained officers in recent years and decimated their standalone PO Units
GMP for instance has cut its Tactical Aid Unit from four PSU’s down to one
Events such as football matches now require inter force mutual aid, which a few years ago was unheard of
Put bluntly the U.K. does not have the civil capacity to deal with widespread disorder that it did even in 2011 following the Duggan shooting
smifffymoto said:
amgmcqueen said:
The French want change, yet keep voting for the status quo.
You got that the wrong way around.Things are changing far too quickly,Macron is like whirlwind of reform and they don’t like it.Some friends worked at Coca Cola and GLS at fairly senior levels and they recognise that France has to change to be competative in the global market but most of the population are fonctionnaires or inward thinkers who never leave France.
Earthdweller said:
Derek Smith said:
The French system of law enforcement differs from that of the UK, but they have both tactical and strategic reserves in the case of riots
Unfortunately Derek the reserves in the U.K. are negligible The Met has around 5000 riot trainer officers of which about 700 are in the Territorial Support Group
The rest of the country has around 10000 riot trained officers of which only a few hundred are trained to Level 1 (TSG standard)
Many forces have drastically cut the numbers of P.O. trained officers in recent years and decimated their standalone PO Units
GMP for instance has cut its Tactical Aid Unit from four PSU’s down to one
Events such as football matches now require inter force mutual aid, which a few years ago was unheard of
Put bluntly the U.K. does not have the civil capacity to deal with widespread disorder that it did even in 2011 following the Duggan shooting
otolith said:
The fuel taxes aren't about revenue, Macron is doing the Green thing that we had protestors in London demanding of the government last week.
I would guess the London protestors were mostly well-off / academic / lefty nutters? The 'silent majority' are not represented by them - whereas I suspect that more 'normal' people will sympathise with the protests in France (and Beligium).Benbay001 said:
Wait, this is all over a 7.6 cent increase in the cost of a liter?
for 20000km/year, that's an extra 91 Euro a year by my calculations. (assuming 6l/100KM for a 15 year old clio diesel or something)
The French will protest anything.
No body likes extra taxes but its not as though the government will take the money and dump it in the channel.
What are the protestors suggesting they raise that revenue from instead?
I would like our Government to stop pissing money away. If they did that they wouldn't need to find another place to raise the money would they? Same across EU I reckon.for 20000km/year, that's an extra 91 Euro a year by my calculations. (assuming 6l/100KM for a 15 year old clio diesel or something)
The French will protest anything.
No body likes extra taxes but its not as though the government will take the money and dump it in the channel.
What are the protestors suggesting they raise that revenue from instead?
Saw this on facebook this morning
https://www.facebook.com/Respectpourlesmilitaires/...tn__=HH-R&eid=ARCcahnNXauzRUotKHMk5FWb_asvsOc1L1tYo4ijzEIF4c8xZv3ZiBBVcc084zFwpEq8y0TbgxFQ1Ofu&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARB4jOkHy0SvY4CrFALS1QK6Vk08lG1UaVngQrdgMVxzAet35S-D2JzWn5qv5cWYuE-er3wCyYm2uAoCaNC0SuQ6KmOkLBA27xluOrnY6TAgyv2XXmLcHujCBTUNDoYivX75C7whEKH7Jwo9dE3yZc-605PQXKORJj4_Bv2XSf02YlQcOiCkZlncPC6S6gBhvqsTKpvWRgrSxkVjkLLfw06sXC5SqMh6eUmbunF3tuYgITQb4IxX-rigdU8vobAd1LJgFRPSYOnUM0I4ggmHPtYexV-KDlPY2t-EOZwNXiEBUM3v53RIX4MqQXWiXgoiKnqz0iK1G-W3xLVqo
https://www.facebook.com/Respectpourlesmilitaires/...tn__=HH-R&eid=ARCcahnNXauzRUotKHMk5FWb_asvsOc1L1tYo4ijzEIF4c8xZv3ZiBBVcc084zFwpEq8y0TbgxFQ1Ofu&__xts__%5B0%5D=68.ARB4jOkHy0SvY4CrFALS1QK6Vk08lG1UaVngQrdgMVxzAet35S-D2JzWn5qv5cWYuE-er3wCyYm2uAoCaNC0SuQ6KmOkLBA27xluOrnY6TAgyv2XXmLcHujCBTUNDoYivX75C7whEKH7Jwo9dE3yZc-605PQXKORJj4_Bv2XSf02YlQcOiCkZlncPC6S6gBhvqsTKpvWRgrSxkVjkLLfw06sXC5SqMh6eUmbunF3tuYgITQb4IxX-rigdU8vobAd1LJgFRPSYOnUM0I4ggmHPtYexV-KDlPY2t-EOZwNXiEBUM3v53RIX4MqQXWiXgoiKnqz0iK1G-W3xLVqo
Balmoral said:
Once Brexit is cancelled, the UK will make the French look like rank amateurs. The UK rarely does violent protest, and I mean proper full on violent protest, but this will be the one imo 
You've only got to read anything on the demographic that voted leave to realise this is unlikely. The ones who will riot are more likely to be the young who, post brexit, might feel that their voice has been ignored. Those 65 and over were twice as likely to vote leave as those under 25. Those 50 and over were more likely to vote leave. The fewer qualifications you had the more likely to vote remain.
I'm not sure where you get the idea that violent protest is rare in this country. When I was in a PSU unit, I worked most weekends in London policing riots that were expected to be violent and, thankfully, often were. That way further overtime was guaranteed for the next demonstration. It's a myth that the British just cough apologetically and then go about their business.
However, remain would appear to be the majority wish amongst the young and aggressive. It is more likely that there will be violent demonstrations post brexit if it results in hardship and unemployment.
As someone posted earlier, there is no tactical reserve of police officers in this country, let alone strategic. During the last (very rare?) metropolitan riots there was a great deal of criticism regarding the lack of numbers of police in immediate response. One wondered if it was assumed police officers were kept in vans all over the country ready to respond.
Numbers are well down now. There used to be a minimum number that, for short periods, various forces would keep for day-to-day policing and only any surplus would be available for mutual aid. Nowadays, the <minimum number is the norm.
I doubt the UK will remain, but if the decision is to continue to brexit, one of the reasons will not be a fear of a rash of zimmer-frame rioters.
Balmoral said:
Once Brexit is cancelled, the UK will make the French look like rank amateurs. The UK rarely does violent protest, and I mean proper full on violent protest, but this will be the one imo
I'm bracing myself for at least 5-10 strongly worded letters and a couple of scraps in care homes. The prospect sends chills down my spine. johnxjsc1985 said:
I do admire how the French are willing to get out and show their anger . Maybe if we had that same vavavoom we wouldn't be looking at a choice of May or Corbyn.
But maybe we would have had a choice of Marine Le Pen or Macron.Regarding Brexit riots - 29% of 18-24 year olds and 46% of 25-49 year olds voted to leave.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
And it was 39% of men aged 18-24, men being much more rioty on the whole.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/567922/distrib...
Not to mention that a huge number of people in the rioty demographics didn't vote at all, figures for turn out vary wildly (between 35-65%!) but even so a lot of them didn't bother and might just join in a riot for the fun of it.
It's hard to see what particular spark would ignite riots in the event of Brexit being fudged or overturned, but the fuel is there and not only around zimmer frames and care homes.
WyrleyD said:
The protests are no longer just about the cost of fuel taxes, they have been taken over by the left wing activists (although the presidents office conveniently label the protesters as far right!) and the list of demands being made include:
the lowering of all taxes;
the creation of a citizens' assembly to replace the Senate;
the reduction of the carbon tax, as well as the consumption tax on energy products (TICPE);
the cancellation of a draft law on palm oil biofuel;
the ban on glyphosate reversed;
the abandonment of the project to renew the French car fleet with electric vehicles;
a cut in employer charges;
increase pensions;
a reduction in salaries for ministers and those in government posts;
a cut in privileges for former elected officials.
why is it convenient?the lowering of all taxes;
the creation of a citizens' assembly to replace the Senate;
the reduction of the carbon tax, as well as the consumption tax on energy products (TICPE);
the cancellation of a draft law on palm oil biofuel;
the ban on glyphosate reversed;
the abandonment of the project to renew the French car fleet with electric vehicles;
a cut in employer charges;
increase pensions;
a reduction in salaries for ministers and those in government posts;
a cut in privileges for former elected officials.
What I know of Macrons energy policy seems absurd
France is most stable and secure country in the EU
80% of it energy comes from its nuclear plants .. which macron intends to close
15% comes from hydroelectric sources
Only 5% comes from all other sources
How much of France needs to be covered in wind farms to replicate the lost nuclear supplies ?
Does he really want France to be reliant on Russian gas like Germany ?
France is most stable and secure country in the EU
80% of it energy comes from its nuclear plants .. which macron intends to close
15% comes from hydroelectric sources
Only 5% comes from all other sources
How much of France needs to be covered in wind farms to replicate the lost nuclear supplies ?
Does he really want France to be reliant on Russian gas like Germany ?
Davidonly said:
otolith said:
The fuel taxes aren't about revenue, Macron is doing the Green thing that we had protestors in London demanding of the government last week.
I would guess the London protestors were mostly well-off / academic / lefty nutters? The 'silent majority' are not represented by them - whereas I suspect that more 'normal' people will sympathise with the protests in France (and Beligium).Derek Smith said:
...During the last (very rare?) metropolitan riots there was a great deal of criticism regarding the lack of numbers of police in immediate response. One wondered if it was assumed police officers were kept in vans all over the country ready to respond...
YOu mean, they're not?! 
Edited by Halb on Monday 3rd December 10:56
otolith said:
Davidonly said:
otolith said:
The fuel taxes aren't about revenue, Macron is doing the Green thing that we had protestors in London demanding of the government last week.
I would guess the London protestors were mostly well-off / academic / lefty nutters? The 'silent majority' are not represented by them - whereas I suspect that more 'normal' people will sympathise with the protests in France (and Beligium).Where both my wife and I grew up our fathers used to hunt rabbits for food due to shortages and rationing
They appreciate a warm home and food on the table bought in shops .. believe me
Balmoral said:
Once Brexit is cancelled, the UK will make the French look like rank amateurs. The UK rarely does violent protest, and I mean proper full on violent protest, but this will be the one imo
Bearing in mind we are told all Brexiteers are Knuckle dragging gammon with nothing to lose, I fail to see why this comes as a surprise to anybody. Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff