Theresa May (Vol.2)
Discussion
wc98 said:
powerstroke said:
One thing is for sure ,this tiny wet island wouldn't have achieved a tenth of what we have if we all had the
insipid risk averse I'm all right jack attitude shown by most of the remain lot ...
i recently watched a you tube clip i was sent in a link from a friend. dominc grieve, farage and campbell being interviewed by piers morgan and susanna reid. insipid and risk averse is a perfect descriptor of grieve. i have no idea what sort of people vote someone like that into office. i wouldn't let him lead a pony, never mind a horse to water.he might be a clever bloke but by christ he gives the appearance of having a spine like a wet paper straw.insipid risk averse I'm all right jack attitude shown by most of the remain lot ...
as for campbell, given he thinks vast swathes of the country have now changed their mind and want to remain instead (i would sell my house so i could afford to pay him to do a survey in the north east, cumbria and norfolk.would keep a little back from the sale to pay for the funeral though
) i can only assume he now has a hard drug habit and was under the influence of lsd or ayahuasca (the drug, not ph member 
) during the interview. Jimboka said:
But both come across far better than Farage & co. Who have no answers, just empty slogans & soundbites. Jump off the cliff & you can fly, isn’t really the answer to the problems that their type have caused..
Tend to agree.I find myself deeply conflicted when I watch or listen to Tony Blair and Campbell because we all know about the toxic legacy but that doesn't mean their views are invalid or wrong on other issues.
Whenever I watch or listen to Farage I'm afraid all I see is someone who can't actually debate and who, whenever pushed hard, always finds a way to very quickly swing it back to "But what about the fishing rights?".
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:Jimboka said:
But both come across far better than Farage & co. Who have no answers, just empty slogans & soundbites. Jump off the cliff & you can fly, isn’t really the answer to the problems that their type have caused..
Tend to agree.I find myself deeply conflicted when I watch or listen to Tony Blair and Campbell because we all know about the toxic legacy but that doesn't mean their views are invalid or wrong on other issues.
Whenever I watch or listen to Farage I'm afraid all I see is someone who can't actually debate and who, whenever pushed hard, always finds a way to very quickly swing it back to "But what about the fishing rights?".
Lots of people I think kinda think the same.
Hard to disagree with a lot of what he says sometimes which is difficult to admit.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Tend to agree.
I find myself deeply conflicted when I watch or listen to Tony Blair and Campbell because we all know about the toxic legacy but that doesn't mean their views are invalid or wrong on other issues.
Whenever I watch or listen to Farage I'm afraid all I see is someone who can't actually debate and who, whenever pushed hard, always finds a way to very quickly swing it back to "But what about the fishing rights?".
If you look at extremes at either end you're less likely to find something agreeable. Tony Blair is a shifty character at the best of times, as is Farage. If I don't like one, it doesn't mean I have to like the other.I find myself deeply conflicted when I watch or listen to Tony Blair and Campbell because we all know about the toxic legacy but that doesn't mean their views are invalid or wrong on other issues.
Whenever I watch or listen to Farage I'm afraid all I see is someone who can't actually debate and who, whenever pushed hard, always finds a way to very quickly swing it back to "But what about the fishing rights?".
p1stonhead said:
Tony Blair is a tough one because he is a horrible human being. But he was PM for a long time so his views do carry some weight.
Lots of people I think kinda think the same.
Hard to disagree with a lot of what he says sometimes which is difficult to admit.
You should put your likes and dislikes behind you when trying to assess the validity of what anyone is saying. Look at the words rather than the intent.Lots of people I think kinda think the same.
Hard to disagree with a lot of what he says sometimes which is difficult to admit.
However, in the case of Blair, the intent - making more money and gaining influence - is impossible to ignore. We've had it reinforced over the long period of him as PM. I'd dismiss it as it comes from a swamp.
This comes from someone who voted for him in 97 - hardly on my own there I know - and pleased I did. There was no suitable alternative at the time.
The same content is repeated by a couple of tories close, in the sense of position in the party, to May. Their points of view are much easier to assess.
I detest May. She's had one ambition over recent years and has sacrificed everything and everyone to that end. She's got it and it's not what she expected. I'm really gutted for her. However, I've been impressed by the way she's stuck to her task. That surprised me and I would have bet against it. However, she appears to be getting more frantic as the days past. She's under tremendous pressure and her colleagues are all fighting to gain personal advantage, rather like she did before she became PM. I've got the feeling we're seeing her last throws.
janesmith1950 said:
If you look at extremes at either end you're less likely to find something agreeable. Tony Blair is a shifty character at the best of times, as is Farage. If I don't like one, it doesn't mean I have to like the other.
I agree completely which is why I find it very baffling when I hear people dismiss what Tony Blair has to say "coz of Iraq" rather than anything to do with the things he's saying.I'll be listening to Farage on LBC this morning and as usual I'll agree with some stuff and disagree with some other stuff.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:janesmith1950 said:
If you look at extremes at either end you're less likely to find something agreeable. Tony Blair is a shifty character at the best of times, as is Farage. If I don't like one, it doesn't mean I have to like the other.
I agree completely which is why I find it very baffling when I hear people dismiss what Tony Blair has to say "coz of Iraq" rather than anything to do with the things he's saying.I'll be listening to Farage on LBC this morning and as usual I'll agree with some stuff and disagree with some other stuff.
B'stard Child said:
One of my reasons - if not possible now it would be never possible
I'm actually not sure it's possible now bearing in mind what a horlicks has been made of the process if we end up in then we need to be all in
It's hard now because of those in charge. They don't want to be out, and don't have the support of either the electorate or their party.I'm actually not sure it's possible now bearing in mind what a horlicks has been made of the process if we end up in then we need to be all in
Cameron rightly resigned as the country didn't like his plan. Then the Tories elected TM, who promptly and against all the odds threw away a working majority. And now parliament is against her along with a good 1/3 of her own MPs.
Had the process been started by a Eurosceptic with the party behind them we'd have stood a chance. As it was it was daft to vote leave as this result was inevitable.*
*I'll admit I didn't envision quite how badly they'd f
k it up.Bill said:
Further to that, I suspect a significant proportion of the leave vote was simply anti-establishment.
Well, if we are throwing around unfounded accusations, I suspect a significant proportion of the Remain vote was simply scared of change, rather than a positive vote for the status quo.Bill said:
B'stard Child said:
One of my reasons - if not possible now it would be never possible
I'm actually not sure it's possible now bearing in mind what a horlicks has been made of the process if we end up in then we need to be all in
It's hard now because of those in charge. They don't want to be out, and don't have the support of either the electorate or their party.I'm actually not sure it's possible now bearing in mind what a horlicks has been made of the process if we end up in then we need to be all in
Cameron rightly resigned as the country didn't like his plan. Then the Tories elected TM, who promptly and against all the odds threw away a working majority. And now parliament is against her along with a good 1/3 of her own MPs.
Had the process been started by a Eurosceptic with the party behind them we'd have stood a chance. As it was it was daft to vote leave as this result was inevitable.*
*I'll admit I didn't envision quite how badly they'd f
k it up.ked it up. It’s all part of a plan to not leave, that is going quite well.
loafer123 said:
Bill said:
Further to that, I suspect a significant proportion of the leave vote was simply anti-establishment.
Well, if we are throwing around unfounded accusations, I suspect a significant proportion of the Remain vote was simply scared of change, rather than a positive vote for the status quo.Salmonofdoubt said:
When you’re happy with your life and don’t feel the need to ask for a change that is vague and not something you’ll, have any control of anyway why should you be anything other than nervous?
Those who supported leave were in my view either wealthy people who can weather a storm, or the angry and disenfranchised in post industrial areas who wanted to give the PM a bloody nose because they were sold a number of lies and strawman arguments.
I voted leave because I was nervous of the situation the EU project is now in, both in terms of how much more entwined it was getting and the financial state of it, it is for all intents and purposes insolvent, and with only the UK and Germany with any true ability to bail it out when things start to get really sour I thought it was time to leave with the hope it would go back to what it was meant to be, a trading block which allowed citizens to move around freely to work. Those who supported leave were in my view either wealthy people who can weather a storm, or the angry and disenfranchised in post industrial areas who wanted to give the PM a bloody nose because they were sold a number of lies and strawman arguments.
Your second point is what is being drip fed from the mainstream media and total b
ks as far as I have seen.Of course there are people who fit those categories, but the way it is portrayed that is all leavers and remainers are taking it in is just laughable.
It is the same as me saying the only ones who voted remain are those who did so for selfish reasons and don't give a s
te about the little man, or those who thought they wouldn't be able to travel to Europe in the future. Everyone thinks those who voted differently to them have bought the lies and are probably a bit stupid, or to be fairer, a bit gullible, and so, so wrong.
Surely that's natural? If we didn't think that we would have voted the other way, wouldn't we?
They think they'll get away with remain being an option still.
The Times said:
On the Tory side, the key figures include former education secretary Nicky Morgan and Oliver Letwin, who MPs say has concluded that an alternative Norway-style deal with Brussels "is dead" and there is "no option" but to consider revoking article 50.
Elysium said:
loafer123 said:
Bill said:
Further to that, I suspect a significant proportion of the leave vote was simply anti-establishment.
Well, if we are throwing around unfounded accusations, I suspect a significant proportion of the Remain vote was simply scared of change, rather than a positive vote for the status quo.The EU has constantly evolved and morphed into something that we never actually agreed to join and looks to be going even further.
As recently as 2017 people were outright denying the plan for an EU army and yet....
Wobbegong said:
Bill said:
B'stard Child said:
One of my reasons - if not possible now it would be never possible
I'm actually not sure it's possible now bearing in mind what a horlicks has been made of the process if we end up in then we need to be all in
It's hard now because of those in charge. They don't want to be out, and don't have the support of either the electorate or their party.I'm actually not sure it's possible now bearing in mind what a horlicks has been made of the process if we end up in then we need to be all in
Cameron rightly resigned as the country didn't like his plan. Then the Tories elected TM, who promptly and against all the odds threw away a working majority. And now parliament is against her along with a good 1/3 of her own MPs.
Had the process been started by a Eurosceptic with the party behind them we'd have stood a chance. As it was it was daft to vote leave as this result was inevitable.*
*I'll admit I didn't envision quite how badly they'd f
k it up.ked it up. It’s all part of a plan to not leave, that is going quite well.B'stard Child said:
If that is the case then they are far cleverer and a heck of a lot more devious than I give them credit for and that would worry me more
How many times has a country held a referendum that didn't go the EU 's way and been "persuaded" to have another go?
They have form.
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