Theresa May (Vol.2)

[johnxjsc1985]

alfie2244 said:

Without May's / Oily's hands up his back perhaps............neither he nor his successors were leading negotiations really though were they?

Its been clear for sometime this is MAY'S deal she has been all over this from day one .She is the architect of our current position and Parliament is clearly out to prevent Brexit at any cost its very much a Phoney Brexit.
The Conservatives would need a majority of over 100 to deal with the ERG and Labour would need a not dissimilar number as lets not forget Corbyn lost his own vote of confidence by a big margin.
They should cancel Christmas in Parliament lock them in and tell them to let us know when they have sorted this mess out but until then the exit doors are locked.

[p1stonhead]

ash73 said:

p1stonhead said:

Lots of people know it.

Lots of people dont care even a tiny little bit about Ireland.

I'd be delighted if they re-unified, it would make Brexit a lot easier!

We're doing things in the wrong order.

It would fairly quickly solve a hell of a lot.
Wont happen though.

[EddieSteadyGo]

alfie2244 said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

I'm not making that point.

The PM anticipated the problem in parliament i.e the risk of being held hostage by special interest groups of one form or another. So she called an election and explained she needed a large mandate to make Brexit happen. And many people didn't follow through from their original vote in the referendum, instead electing a large number of MPs who had 'on the record' positions of opposing Brexit. Hence my comment that 'the people' bear some responsibility as they have to some degree tied her hands.

Whilst you personally might not have done, I'm referring to the overall result having aggregated everyone's votes together.

She also ran the worst election campaign in modern history so still all her fault.;)

That was the obvious retort. And I agree the campaign was awful. But I still believe some level of culpability resides with people who voted Brexit and who, for whatever reason, perhaps related to tribal loyalties, decided to vote for MPs who were directly opposed to Brexit.

[JagLover]

Trophy Husband said:

Indeed. Which is anachronistic to the DUP stance wouldn't you say? They allegedly rail against the backstop, I'm not sure if that's the truth? They just don't like it one way, they don't give a stuff about the other.

I love the real Irish, they're great people. The Ulster Scottish ones are s in my humble opinion. Colonists that they are.

On a side note

No-one would describe immigrant communities in England, particularly those who had been here hundreds of years, as "colonists".

[alfie2244]

EddieSteadyGo said:

That was the obvious retort. And I agree the campaign was awful. But I still believe some level of culpability resides with people who voted Brexit and who, for whatever reason, perhaps related to tribal loyalties, decided to vote for MPs who were directly opposed to Brexit.

Sorry for pointing out the obvious to you.........none of what you suggest relates to me so as far as I am concerned May's woes are self inflicted and nowt to do with me even though I voted Brexit.

I should add I have absolutely no idea how many that voted Brexit then subsequently voted for a Remainer MP.

[London424]

EddieSteadyGo said:

alfie2244 said:

EddieSteadyGo said:

I'm not making that point.

The PM anticipated the problem in parliament i.e the risk of being held hostage by special interest groups of one form or another. So she called an election and explained she needed a large mandate to make Brexit happen. And many people didn't follow through from their original vote in the referendum, instead electing a large number of MPs who had 'on the record' positions of opposing Brexit. Hence my comment that 'the people' bear some responsibility as they have to some degree tied her hands.

Whilst you personally might not have done, I'm referring to the overall result having aggregated everyone's votes together.

She also ran the worst election campaign in modern history so still all her fault.;)

That was the obvious retort. And I agree the campaign was awful. But I still believe some level of culpability resides with people who voted Brexit and who, for whatever reason, perhaps related to tribal loyalties, decided to vote for MPs who were directly opposed to Brexit.

But you can't know what every MP is thinking on all the possible issues. Surely you are voting for manifesto commitments? And if MPs don't feel able to stand behind the manifesto they shouldn't be putting themselves forward for election for that party?

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

s2art said:

Derek Smith said:

This isn't the £350m lie that they stuck on the side of buses and then said they didn't mean; this was clear, unambiguous statements.

What lie was that? The sum mentioned was approximately correct. There was a suggestion (lets) that we fund the NHS better. Only someone who is quasi illiterate would take that as a promise to put the mentioned amount into the NHS. It could be said that we fund foreign aid to approx 12 billion, lets better fund the NHS instead, that doesnt mean 12 billion goes to the NHS.

There's nothing ambiguous about this.

[frisbee]

So our Prime Minister's word of the day is "assurances". Well done Theresa, I'm sure we'll all fall for that and badger our MPs to vote for your WA.

[p1stonhead]

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

s2art said:

Derek Smith said:

This isn't the £350m lie that they stuck on the side of buses and then said they didn't mean; this was clear, unambiguous statements.

What lie was that? The sum mentioned was approximately correct. There was a suggestion (lets) that we fund the NHS better. Only someone who is quasi illiterate would take that as a promise to put the mentioned amount into the NHS. It could be said that we fund foreign aid to approx 12 billion, lets better fund the NHS instead, that doesnt mean 12 billion goes to the NHS.

There's nothing ambiguous about this.

yeah loads of leavers try to make s2art's point until they see that picture. The bus is worded slightly differently and they try to claim it was ambiguous.

[anonymous-user]

p1stonhead said:

yeah everyone tries to make s2art's point until they see that picture. The bus is worded slightly differently and they try to claim it was ambiguous.

I have heard the argument that "let's" mean "allow or enable".
Once we aren't paying we will be able to use the money for that purpose.
Apparently.

[wc98]

p1stonhead said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

s2art said:

Derek Smith said:

This isn't the £350m lie that they stuck on the side of buses and then said they didn't mean; this was clear, unambiguous statements.

What lie was that? The sum mentioned was approximately correct. There was a suggestion (lets) that we fund the NHS better. Only someone who is quasi illiterate would take that as a promise to put the mentioned amount into the NHS. It could be said that we fund foreign aid to approx 12 billion, lets better fund the NHS instead, that doesnt mean 12 billion goes to the NHS.

There's nothing ambiguous about this.

yeah loads of leavers try to make s2art's point until they see that picture. The bus is worded slightly differently and they try to claim it was ambiguous.

https://www.itv.com/news/2018-06-16/nhs-to-get-extra-384-million-per-week-after-brexit-government-says/
what's the problem ? it would appear the nhs will be getting 350 million a week extra and then some, post brexit.

[don'tbesilly]

desolate said:

p1stonhead said:

yeah everyone tries to make s2art's point until they see that picture. The bus is worded slightly differently and they try to claim it was ambiguous.

I have heard the argument that "let's" mean "allow or enable".
Once we aren't paying we will be able to use the money for that purpose.
Apparently.

Yet May has claimed the same as the Leave campaign, promoted the message as a means of selling her plan and no one has batted an eyelid.

All rather odd

[anonymous-user]

don'tbesilly said:

Yet May has claimed the same as the Leave campaign, promoted the message as a means of selling her plan and no one has batted an eyelid.

All rather odd

Seriously?
May has been almost universally derided - all parties and all sides of the argument.

[bitchstewie]

I like this assessment of Mogg and his reaction to the vote https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6494273...

[PurpleMoonlight]

bhstewie said:

I like this assessment of Mogg and his reaction to the vote https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6494273...

Rees 'up to 50 years' Mogg has always been ridiculous, this isn't news.

[bitchstewie]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Rees 'up to 50 years' Mogg has always been ridiculous, this isn't news.

True but it does nicely sum up his reaction to the confidence vote.

[don'tbesilly]

desolate said:

don'tbesilly said:

Yet May has claimed the same as the Leave campaign, promoted the message as a means of selling her plan and no one has batted an eyelid.

All rather odd

Seriously?
May has been almost universally derided - all parties and all sides of the argument.

I agree with all the above..........................but not for the reason currently being discussed, no one has mentioned it.
You can of course correct me.

[frisbee]

bhstewie said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Rees 'up to 50 years' Mogg has always been ridiculous, this isn't news.

True but it does nicely sum up his reaction to the confidence vote.

When Sextus Dominus Maximus Kitchen Sink Rees Mogg gets to 16, you just know he's going to rip his blazer off and do something rebellious like use a biro instead of a fountain pen to write a sternly worded letter.

[Piha]

p1stonhead said:

Fermit and Sexy Sarah said:

s2art said:

Derek Smith said:

This isn't the £350m lie that they stuck on the side of buses and then said they didn't mean; this was clear, unambiguous statements.

What lie was that? The sum mentioned was approximately correct. There was a suggestion (lets) that we fund the NHS better. Only someone who is quasi illiterate would take that as a promise to put the mentioned amount into the NHS. It could be said that we fund foreign aid to approx 12 billion, lets better fund the NHS instead, that doesnt mean 12 billion goes to the NHS.

There's nothing ambiguous about this.

yeah loads of leavers try to make s2art's point until they see that picture. The bus is worded slightly differently and they try to claim it was ambiguous.

Ha ha ha ha ha

That really puts to bed the Brexiteers ridiculous denials.

[JagLover]

bhstewie said:

I like this assessment of Mogg and his reaction to the vote https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6494273...

Of course you do

The DM continuing its hatchet jobs on any actual Tory Brexiteers following the change in editor.