Theresa May (Vol.2)

[amgmcqueen]

Oh dear, oh dear....

'Theresa May to force through 3rd vote'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bre...

[Cobnapint]

amgmcqueen said:

Oh dear, oh dear....

'Theresa May to force through 3rd vote'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bre...

She's clearly got a plan of some sort then, and Bercow wasn't on the mailing list.

[Mrr T]

SpeckledJim said:

Mrr T said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

70% of Labour MP's constituencies voted Leave. If you want to play numbers games.

I know but the UK system is FPTP. As a labour MP would I support leave because a lot of conservative voters in my constituency voted leave. Or remain because large majority of my supports voted remain?

Depends if you were committed to fairly representing the people of your constituency, or just a cynical politician?

Are you really suggesting politicians are cynical for representing the views of their voters?

If that is to change you need to change the voting system.

[Mrr T]

Cobnapint said:

Mrr T said:

Your numbers ignore the fact there are:

1. 245 Labour. Labour voters voted 65% to remain.
2. 35 SNP. Scotland voted to remain.
3. 11 LD. Who's policy was remain.
4. 10 DUP. NI voted to remain!!

So 290 MP who support remain are doing no more than reflecting the views of their voters.

Once the result of the ref was announced, their responsibilities towards their own constituents with regards to in/out became irrelevant.
Their job from that point on was to enact the result the 'country' demanded, not carry on campaigning as if nothing had happened.

So in brexit democracy if a referendum is won by a tiny percentage everybody must now support the view of the majority.

Not sure that's how democracy works.

[SpeckledJim]

Mrr T said:

SpeckledJim said:

Mrr T said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

70% of Labour MP's constituencies voted Leave. If you want to play numbers games.

I know but the UK system is FPTP. As a labour MP would I support leave because a lot of conservative voters in my constituency voted leave. Or remain because large majority of my supports voted remain?

Depends if you were committed to fairly representing the people of your constituency, or just a cynical politician?

Are you really suggesting politicians are cynical for representing the views of their voters?

If that is to change you need to change the voting system.

The voters of the referendum overlap with the voters of a general election, but aren't the same. It's not fair or correct to assume that Labour voters are the same people who voted Remain. Especially outside London.

The MP should be committed to the promises in their manifesto in general, and with regard to Brexit, respectful of the way their constituency voted.

What should trump what? Well, they owe their jobs to their manifesto promises, so I'd say those should probably be foremost.

[Fermit and Sexy Sarah]

I think there's more chance of R Kelly's I believe I can fly being chosen as the Boeing anthem, than of Theresa May getting through this mess unscathed.

[Mrr T]

SpeckledJim said:

It's not fair or correct to assume that Labour voters are the same people who voted Remain. Especially outside London.

So the 65% of labour voters who voted remain are not the same voters who voted labour.

Not sure I get that.

[SpeckledJim]

Mrr T said:

SpeckledJim said:

It's not fair or correct to assume that Labour voters are the same people who voted Remain. Especially outside London.

So the 65% of labour voters who voted remain are not the same voters who voted labour.

Not sure I get that.

What I'm saying is that a Labour MP of a Remain voting constituency has to choose between being faithful to his manifesto promise, or going with the Brexit result in his patch.

Likewise a Labour MP of a Leave constituency. He can't (shouldn't) point to a national trend of Labour voters toward Remain to justify saying to his Leave constituency that he's not going to keep his promise.

What he can't do is say that because he was elected by a Labour electorate, and because, country wide, Labour voter tended to favour Remain, that his promise to respect the vote to Leave is not a proper promise.

And it's not a black and white situation. Islington - Labour and devoutly Remain. Sunderland - Labour and devoutly Leave. Two completely different communities who agree about favouring Labour, but completely disagree about the EU.

[anonymous-user]

Blue62 said:

And it would be the end. Parliament has blocked a no deal on March 29th so you won't get your wish and if we are to leave with no deal it will take a considerable time to organise otherwise it will be chaotic for all Europeans. This is why many leavers wanted no deal from the off, at least that way there was a chance because it looks increasingly likely that a no deal was the only real option, something we weren't told at the referendum by either side.

Parliamentary hasnt blocked no deal yet, they have indicated they dont want no deal, currently no deal is the default that will still happen if the EU refuse an extension or if the law change required doesn't get voted through prior to the 29th at 11pm.

[Cobnapint]

Mrr T said:

Cobnapint said:

Mrr T said:

Your numbers ignore the fact there are:

1. 245 Labour. Labour voters voted 65% to remain.
2. 35 SNP. Scotland voted to remain.
3. 11 LD. Who's policy was remain.
4. 10 DUP. NI voted to remain!!

So 290 MP who support remain are doing no more than reflecting the views of their voters.

Once the result of the ref was announced, their responsibilities towards their own constituents with regards to in/out became irrelevant.
Their job from that point on was to enact the result the 'country' demanded, not carry on campaigning as if nothing had happened.

So in brexit democracy if a referendum is won by a tiny percentage everybody must now support the view of the majority.

Not sure that's how democracy works.

Both sides agreed to abide by the result. That is how democracy works.

[Mrr T]

Cobnapint said:

Both sides agreed to abide by the result. That is how democracy works.

You do know how to tell if a politician is lying?

[anonymous-user]

Cobnapint said:

Both sides agreed to abide by the result. That is how democracy works.

Remember during the USA election campaign when Trump said he might not accept the result and how everyone screamed and howled at him about the loser having to accept the result for democracy to function? I remember that well.

These same self people are now wanting to overturn the referendum result.

Hypocrites the lot of them.

[Cobnapint]

Mrr T said:

Cobnapint said:

Both sides agreed to abide by the result. That is how democracy works.

You do know how to tell if a politician is lying?

We might as well throw the whole lot in in that case, vote Corbyn in, live under Communism and look happy about it.

[johnxjsc1985]

Mrr T said:

So in brexit democracy if a referendum is won by a tiny percentage everybody must now support the view of the majority.

Not sure that's how democracy works.

I think that's exactly how democracy works majority rules it is certainly how the Referendum was supposed to work.

[Mrr T]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Mrr T said:

So in brexit democracy if a referendum is won by a tiny percentage everybody must now support the view of the majority.

Not sure that's how democracy works.

I think that's exactly how democracy works majority rules it is certainly how the Referendum was supposed to work.

So in your democracy once a party wins an election all the other parties have to vote for the governing parties policies.

I assume you will be voting JC at the next election.

[Mrr T]

Earthdweller said:

No not really

7/10 Con Mp’s represent leave constituencies
6/10 Lab Mp’s ....................... ...... .............. ..... just over 62% of labour voters voted Leave

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...

You seem to be confusing the number of constituencies with the number of voters.

A large number of Labour constituencies voted leave because the majority of conservative voter and a minority of Labour voters voted leave.

The voter surveys show about 65% of Labour voters voted remain.

[TTmonkey]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Mrr T said:

So in brexit democracy if a referendum is won by a tiny percentage everybody must now support the view of the majority.

Not sure that's how democracy works.

I think that's exactly how democracy works majority rules it is certainly how the Referendum was supposed to work.

Democracy of North Korea perhaps. A strong opposition to government policy is essential. Just a bit odd this time that the conservatives are split on this.

Any other government with such a weak position would have fallen by now, only the presence of Corbyn is propping up May.

[SpeckledJim]

Mrr T said:

You seem to be confusing the number of constituencies with the number of voters.

A large number of Labour constituencies voted leave because the majority of conservative voter and a minority of Labour voters voted leave.

The voter surveys show about 65% of Labour voters voted remain.

I'm sure that's true, but I bet it's not evenly distributed.

I expect it's 85% of London Labour voters voted Remain, and only 35% of Sunderland Labour voters.

So it's not the case that any and all Labour MPs can say, whilst merrily subverting Brexit, that they're merely following the orders of their voters.

Every Labour MP stood under a promise to respect the result of the Referendum. That's not the result in their patch, or the result amongst their constituency supporters. It's the result overall.

[wc98]

Mrr T said:

You seem to be confusing the number of constituencies with the number of voters.

A large number of Labour constituencies voted leave because the majority of conservative voter and a minority of Labour voters voted leave.

The voter surveys show about 65% of Labour voters voted remain.

numerous voter surveys showed remain would win out in the referendum. your voter survey results are no better. no one knows how many supporters of each party voted in the referendum.

[JuniorD]

All I can say is thank frig for these guys, the ones in the wigs. Can you imagine if May & her y party had unfettered power to do what she wanted