Theresa May (Vol.2)
Discussion
chris watton said:
andy_s said:
Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
Which is why I leaned more towards remain, not that I was blind to drunken bureaucrats, but because I could see the demonstrable paucity of quality of our incumbent political class which would probably mean...well...being where we are now.Once we lose our sovereignty and self determination, we will never get it back. It seems that most do not mind this at all, so perhaps it is me in the minority - and I do have skin in the game as I sub contract some services from Italy, Germany and Russia. Yet the thought of our government being so incompetent that we all end up with unaccountable apparatchiks in the EU fills me with more dread than any party in the UK - at least they are still accountable to us, and we can vote them out!
Most businesses use China for the majority of their product manufacturing. Last time I checked, China isn't part of the EU, how do these businesses cope!
We've been inept at dealing with the Eu since we joined the EEC, gravy-train politicians who idle away their time until the pension suits their lifestyle rather than championing the cause of one of the only net contributors.
The EU was a runaway train of similar self-interest and Machiavellian machination, however I think we were still long from the tipping point of where it no longer served our general interest., especially when viewed in light of my last para which indicates that we wouldn't be ably served by those we put into power to deal with either the conditions, the transition or, as I suspect, the future. As has been exhaustively proven.
The vox pop has been sucked into competing diametric narratives on this matter, neither of which are particularly useful to the 'man in the street', and none of this ink we spend will be fruitful in rationalising any of it. The clock has run out.
andy_s said:
chris watton said:
andy_s said:
Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
Which is why I leaned more towards remain, not that I was blind to drunken bureaucrats, but because I could see the demonstrable paucity of quality of our incumbent political class which would probably mean...well...being where we are now.Once we lose our sovereignty and self determination, we will never get it back. It seems that most do not mind this at all, so perhaps it is me in the minority - and I do have skin in the game as I sub contract some services from Italy, Germany and Russia. Yet the thought of our government being so incompetent that we all end up with unaccountable apparatchiks in the EU fills me with more dread than any party in the UK - at least they are still accountable to us, and we can vote them out!
Most businesses use China for the majority of their product manufacturing. Last time I checked, China isn't part of the EU, how do these businesses cope!
We've been inept at dealing with the Eu since we joined the EEC, gravy-train politicians who idle away their time until the pension suits their lifestyle rather than championing the cause of one of the only net contributors.
The EU was a runaway train of similar self-interest and Machiavellian machination, however I think we were still long from the tipping point of where it no longer served our general interest., especially when viewed in light of my last para which indicates that we wouldn't be ably served by those we put into power to deal with either the conditions, the transition or, as I suspect, the future. As has been exhaustively proven.
The vox pop has been sucked into competing diametric narratives on this matter, neither of which are particularly useful to the 'man in the street', and none of this ink we spend will be fruitful in rationalising any of it. The clock has run out.
I know what you wrote, but I am trying to understand why, even though we have very inept political parties across the ideological board, so many are more than willing to sweep these aside for something potentially a lot worse, and will be permanent?
The people I talk to (often) from Eastern European countries are dead set against the EU as they know and understand what it is becoming and how it will end. The people who suffered for so long under similar regimes do not want to regress back to that. I am assuming that because we have never suffered such things, we haven't a clue what we're getting into, being too naïve and just thinking from a narrow business perspective (but again, they also have good business with Far Eastern and other non EU countries, so will never understand this argument that leaving the EU will be bad for their business - it will only be bad for business if people choose to make it so, and they are that way inclined, is a relationship like that worth persevering with anyway)?
chris watton said:
Hi Andy,
I know what you wrote, but I am trying to understand why, even though we have very inept political parties across the ideological board, so many are more than willing to sweep these aside for something potentially a lot worse, and will be permanent?
The people I talk to (often) from Eastern European countries are dead set against the EU as they know and understand what it is becoming and how it will end. The people who suffered for so long under similar regimes do not want to regress back to that. I am assuming that because we have never suffered such things, we haven't a clue what we're getting into, being too naïve and just thinking from a narrow business perspective (but again, they also have good business with Far Eastern and other non EU countries, so will never understand this argument that leaving the EU will be bad for their business - it will only be bad for business if people choose to make it so, and they are that way inclined, is a relationship like that worth persevering with anyway)?
Oh I completely agree we have the potential to operate autonomously, it's just that, rather like the Scottish question, we put the cart before the horse; if we'd gone from a point of view of 'here's how we can improve our lot, but we have to leave the EU to do it' rather than 'we don't like the EU so lets leave' the whole thing would have made far more sense.I know what you wrote, but I am trying to understand why, even though we have very inept political parties across the ideological board, so many are more than willing to sweep these aside for something potentially a lot worse, and will be permanent?
The people I talk to (often) from Eastern European countries are dead set against the EU as they know and understand what it is becoming and how it will end. The people who suffered for so long under similar regimes do not want to regress back to that. I am assuming that because we have never suffered such things, we haven't a clue what we're getting into, being too naïve and just thinking from a narrow business perspective (but again, they also have good business with Far Eastern and other non EU countries, so will never understand this argument that leaving the EU will be bad for their business - it will only be bad for business if people choose to make it so, and they are that way inclined, is a relationship like that worth persevering with anyway)?
I'm fairly sanguine about the mid-term, but my main lesson from the whole debacle is seeing the kings in their new clothes; to my way of thinking the whole lot of them, every, single, one, should be unelectable in future, and a more cogent, rational, cooperative brand of politics and discourse should take its place. The more we are hitched, by proxy, to left or right dogma, the less flexible in solutions we become and the less nimble in a constantly changing world we are; qualities that will be sorely needed in the short-term.
Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
if their was a prise you would definitely get it because I cannot remember one MP from any Party who comes across as sensible or without an agenda of some sort.Both front benches give me the shivers . The Lib Dems are just a joke of a party . Hilary Benn comes across very well and he has distanced himself from the Corbynistas and I am sure in 650 MP's there must be some good ones but they never seem to get air time probably because they are not "gobby" enough.
She is toast I don't think many would argue that its a case of when not "if"
johnxjsc1985 said:
Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
if their was a prise you would definitely get it because I cannot remember one MP from any Party who comes across as sensible or without an agenda of some sort.Both front benches give me the shivers . The Lib Dems are just a joke of a party . Hilary Benn comes across very well and he has distanced himself from the Corbynistas and I am sure in 650 MP's there must be some good ones but they never seem to get air time probably because they are not "gobby" enough.
She is toast I don't think many would argue that its a case of when not "if"
Yes Clegg f
ked it by going back on his no tuition fee's policy but that was a long time ago and next general election people are going to be looking for alternatives to the big 2 .egor110 said:
It's annoying that the lib dems aren't making the most of the implosion of labour/conservative .
Yes Clegg fked it by going back on his no tuition fee's policy but that was a long time ago and next general election people are going to be looking for alternatives to the big 2 .
People may disagree with me but I thought they were a good influence in the coalition with the Conservatives and I was surprised they took a hiding like they did. If another party could get 60 or 70 seats then they would at least be able to have influence as it seems the days of landslide Elections are over. Yes Clegg f
ked it by going back on his no tuition fee's policy but that was a long time ago and next general election people are going to be looking for alternatives to the big 2 .egor110 said:
It's annoying that the lib dems aren't making the most of the implosion of labour/conservative .
Yes Clegg fked it by going back on his no tuition fee's policy but that was a long time ago and next general election people are going to be looking for alternatives to the big 2 .
Yes, but the Liberals in one form or another have had over three hundred years to make an impact on British politics - the last hundred years has not gone well for them. Is there any reason to suppose that the next five will?Yes Clegg f
ked it by going back on his no tuition fee's policy but that was a long time ago and next general election people are going to be looking for alternatives to the big 2 .My money is on alternatives that might not yet have been formed: the Dutch Senate, for example, now suddenly has, as its biggest party, a party that did not exist at the time of the previous election. Highly Eurosceptic, too.
I imagine that soft Labour and Cameron Conservative might try to form a centre party.
johnxjsc1985 said:
People may disagree with me but I thought they were a good influence in the coalition with the Conservatives and I was surprised they took a hiding like they did. If another party could get 60 or 70 seats then they would at least be able to have influence as it seems the days of landslide Elections are over.
Agreed, what's happened to the Lib Dems is both undeserved and unjustified.They had a seat at the table and influenced things.
I take it that May is allowing the HOC to have their chance to vote on alternatives which will not get a majority by all accounts.
Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
I take it that May is allowing the HOC to have their chance to vote on alternatives which will not get a majority by all accounts.
Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:johnxjsc1985 said:
People may disagree with me but I thought they were a good influence in the coalition with the Conservatives and I was surprised they took a hiding like they did. If another party could get 60 or 70 seats then they would at least be able to have influence as it seems the days of landslide Elections are over.
Agreed, what's happened to the Lib Dems is both undeserved and unjustified.They had a seat at the table and influenced things.
johnxjsc1985 said:
I take it that May is allowing the HOC to have their chance to vote on alternatives which will not get a majority by all accounts.
Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
No! Do you think that's possible, John............... Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
REALIST123 said:
No! Do you think that's possible, John...............
Well faced with a problem of this magnitude I would want to find a way to bring people together not try to put divisions in the way.That however goes for not only May but all of them.
Had we gone to the EU totally united as a Parliament and a Country negotiations could possibly have been different.
We are were we are now I see her now as part of the problem not the solution
andy_s said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:johnxjsc1985 said:
People may disagree with me but I thought they were a good influence in the coalition with the Conservatives and I was surprised they took a hiding like they did. If another party could get 60 or 70 seats then they would at least be able to have influence as it seems the days of landslide Elections are over.
Agreed, what's happened to the Lib Dems is both undeserved and unjustified.They had a seat at the table and influenced things.
Unfortunately the time for that was when she threw away her majority and had to get into bed with the DUP. If she'd set up a cross party working group then we'd have been away, albeit probably in BRINO form. As it is she pissed off everyone in her own party by going it alone and then hacked everyone else off by trying to bully her ridiculous deal through.
johnxjsc1985 said:
I take it that May is allowing the HOC to have their chance to vote on alternatives which will not get a majority by all accounts.
Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
I think you are right re party politics. However, my gut tells me that the best potential outcome of leaving is far worse than staying. That is the problem. Parliament knows that.Once they are done and there is still no consensus will she bring her deal back to the House as the last option available.
Does anyone else feel that the House is still not fully engaged in determining the best outcome for the Country but still pursuing Party and personal agenda's.
Shame on all of them.
Edited by Trophy Husband on Saturday 23 March 18:46
Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
I do feel like there are probably wiser ways to make a point about inept politicians than to give them the most difficult and important task they will ever face.Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
I get the feeling that you are making this up as you go along. Never have I heard a more insane reason to vote leave, although you say you had many other reasons it would be fun to guess what they were:Sacha Distel?
Mateus Rose?
Agincourt perhaps?
Blue62 said:
Turbotechnic said:
That was one of the many reasons why I voted for Brexit, to put a spotlight firmly on our incompetent politicians. Need I say any more.
I get the feeling that you are making this up as you go along. Never have I heard a more insane reason to vote leave, although you say you had many other reasons it would be fun to guess what they were:Sacha Distel?
Mateus Rose?
Agincourt perhaps?
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