Theresa May (Vol.2)
Discussion
pablo said:
mikebradford said:
Overall I think the MPs are not representing their constituents.
If they were I'd expect similar overall voting numbers but with both sides of the votes represented by all the party's.
MPs aren't there to represent their constituents, they are in Westminster to do what's best for the country as a whole. If there was another binary referendum with such vast consequences, I'd expect my MP, with the resources available to them, to do what they thought was right irrespective of what some people who have read something in the Internet think about the situation. If they were I'd expect similar overall voting numbers but with both sides of the votes represented by all the party's.
kers that surround us is quiet unappealing. Just because many of the people in your constituency may have agreed to vote out like yiurself doesn’t make them your friends and you wouldn’t trust them with any other part of your life. How many areas in your own constituency would you not be seen dead in because it’s full of the great British thug life? Take that guy on the TV clip outside Downing Street last night, calling police officers “dirty little counts” to their faces. You wouldn’t give him a second of your life in terms of any decsion you make and nor would your mp. Yet he’s one of the majority that voted leave.
Cameron forgot one thing calling this vote. For every good minded person that could see the EU as a weight draining the UK of wealth and opportunity, there was at least a similar number of outright feckless losers that blames the tories for everything and has the kind of opinions that you would not try to argue with, but would just walk away shaking your head In Disbelief in ANY other conversation.
You wouldn’t share a drink in a pub with at least 10% of leave voters because at least that many would make any reasonable person think ‘oh my god is this what constitutes being British”
The truth is there in the vitriol and hatred out there. You choose to ignore and refute it at your own peril and to the detriment of your own better judgement. The good brexiteers march along with the detritus and scum that is so prevelant in the anger of people in some sections of this country.
The leave majority is too slender to deny this truth. Not one mainstream party supported the leave campaign in the referendum. If you call all the 17.4 million leave voters your partners and brothers then you partner with a good number of the UKs most undesirable people. You wouldn’t want them as next door neighbors.
Which picture below would you hope your children, business associates or employers would see your face in....?
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/q58KZZFU[/url]
MP's are elected to use their own judgement, they are not delegates. Someone sent me a post on Facebook which claimed that the current shenanigans betrayed '300 years of democracy' yesterday.
Let's think about that one. How much democracy was there 300 years ago?
Only rich males could vote until the 19th century, there were rotten boroughs and the unelected House of Lords could block anything it did not like. Women could not vote at all until 100 years ago.
Arguing that this country has had democracy for 300 years is ridiculous. Some people seem to be more than happy to spout this kind of nonsense though.
Let's think about that one. How much democracy was there 300 years ago?
Only rich males could vote until the 19th century, there were rotten boroughs and the unelected House of Lords could block anything it did not like. Women could not vote at all until 100 years ago.
Arguing that this country has had democracy for 300 years is ridiculous. Some people seem to be more than happy to spout this kind of nonsense though.
TTmonkey said:
This is the truth. I say to brexiteers... most of us would not agree with the opinions of many if the people that live in our areas. The sheer number of uneducated, unthinking, unsociable, bloody minded, narrow minded, horrid little fkers that surround us is quiet unappealing. Just because many of the people in your constituency may have agreed to vote out like yiurself doesn’t make them your friends and you wouldn’t trust them with any other part of your life. How many areas in your own constituency would you not be seen dead in because it’s full of the great British thug life?
Take that guy on the TV clip outside Downing Street last night, calling police officers “dirty little counts” to their faces. You wouldn’t give him a second of your life in terms of any decsion you make and nor would your mp. Yet he’s one of the majority that voted leave.
Cameron forgot one thing calling this vote. For every good minded person that could see the EU as a weight draining the UK of wealth and opportunity, there was at least a similar number of outright feckless losers that blames the tories for everything and has the kind of opinions that you would not try to argue with, but would just walk away shaking your head In Disbelief in ANY other conversation.
You wouldn’t share a drink in a pub with at least 10% of leave voters because at least that many would make any reasonable person think ‘oh my god is this what constitutes being British”
The truth is there in the vitriol and hatred out there. You choose to ignore and refute it at your own peril and to the detriment of your own better judgement. The good brexiteers march along with the detritus and scum that is so prevelant in the anger of people in some sections of this country.
The leave majority is too slender to deny this truth. Not one mainstream party supported the leave campaign in the referendum. If you call all the 17.4 million leave voters your partners and brothers then you partner with a good number of the UKs most undesirable people. You wouldn’t want them as next door neighbors.
Which picture below would you hope your children, business associates or employers would see your face in....?
]
Wouldn't it be quicker simply to say that you don't believe that people who disagree with your world view and values should be allowed to vote?kers that surround us is quiet unappealing. Just because many of the people in your constituency may have agreed to vote out like yiurself doesn’t make them your friends and you wouldn’t trust them with any other part of your life. How many areas in your own constituency would you not be seen dead in because it’s full of the great British thug life? Take that guy on the TV clip outside Downing Street last night, calling police officers “dirty little counts” to their faces. You wouldn’t give him a second of your life in terms of any decsion you make and nor would your mp. Yet he’s one of the majority that voted leave.
Cameron forgot one thing calling this vote. For every good minded person that could see the EU as a weight draining the UK of wealth and opportunity, there was at least a similar number of outright feckless losers that blames the tories for everything and has the kind of opinions that you would not try to argue with, but would just walk away shaking your head In Disbelief in ANY other conversation.
You wouldn’t share a drink in a pub with at least 10% of leave voters because at least that many would make any reasonable person think ‘oh my god is this what constitutes being British”
The truth is there in the vitriol and hatred out there. You choose to ignore and refute it at your own peril and to the detriment of your own better judgement. The good brexiteers march along with the detritus and scum that is so prevelant in the anger of people in some sections of this country.
The leave majority is too slender to deny this truth. Not one mainstream party supported the leave campaign in the referendum. If you call all the 17.4 million leave voters your partners and brothers then you partner with a good number of the UKs most undesirable people. You wouldn’t want them as next door neighbors.
Which picture below would you hope your children, business associates or employers would see your face in....?
]
psi310398 said:
pablo said:
MPs aren't there to represent their constituents, they are in Westminster to do what's best for the country as a whole. If there was another binary referendum with such vast consequences, I'd expect my MP, with the resources available to them, to do what they thought was right irrespective of what some people who have read something in the Internet think about the situation.
Yes, but that pass was rather sold when MPs decided to delegate that decision back to the electorate.Many of us are also old fashioned enough to think that any MP should also honour explicit commitments that he/she made to the voters when seeking election...it is not as if this is an issue on which many underlying facts have changed significantly, after all. On a matter like this, if that MP wants to perform a volte face, wouldn't the honourable thing would be to resign and ask for endorsement in a by-election?
Of course, if an MP were to stand on a future election platform in favour of another referendum, that would be reasonable, although presentationally tricky, at least until the decision of the previous one had been honoured. After all, people might not believe that it was offered in good faith.
Then promptly ignore that.
Mothersruin said:
They also went through a GE trumpeting a leave manifesto and how important the will of the people was.
Then promptly ignore that.
This is just nonsense. Then promptly ignore that.
They haven't ignored it, the government have been working on it and found, oddly enough, it isn't that easy. They also found there isn't, again oddly enough, a consensus even in the political parties about how to go about it. There isn't even a consensus among the 52% who voted for it.
You can scream "will of the people" from the rooftops all you like, but there isn't a single will.
Bill said:
...
You can scream "will of the people" from the rooftops all you like, but there isn't a single will.
If you pose an unqualified yes/no question to the electorate, and get an answer, that seems to most people, using plain English, to be an unequivocal expression of exactly that. You can scream "will of the people" from the rooftops all you like, but there isn't a single will.
Unless, of course, you are looking for an excuse not to implement the result.
Mothersruin said:
Rubbish.
Parliament has actively done everything to stay in, and seems odds on to be successful.
It's paid lip service, the barest mininum, to go through the motions but has shown that even a bunch of professional liars couldn't hide their intentions.
Parliament has had bugger all to do with it until recently when TM presented her dog's dinner.Parliament has actively done everything to stay in, and seems odds on to be successful.
It's paid lip service, the barest mininum, to go through the motions but has shown that even a bunch of professional liars couldn't hide their intentions.
You may think that no deal is the one true way, but plenty of leavers disagree.
Cobnapint said:
It makes you wonder where we'd be now if she hadn't dropped Chequers on everybody last summer and just let Davies and Co get on with things the way they wanted.
They probably wouldn't have agreed to Merkal telling them what to bring back like she did.It's still bizarre that May did what she did.
Mothersruin said:
Cobnapint said:
It makes you wonder where we'd be now if she hadn't dropped Chequers on everybody last summer and just let Davies and Co get on with things the way they wanted.
They probably wouldn't have agreed to Merkal telling them what to bring back like she did.It's still bizarre that May did what she did.
biggbn said:
You are all speaking my language. For a state owned service to be tenable it must be able to compete on a level playing field as if it was a private company, it's just the profits can be reinvested into the country. At the moment we have badly run private companies and state sponsored bail out, worst of both worlds
I’d mainly agree, but it’s not going to happen, because a state run business doesn’t contain the people who will take a potentially career-ending risk to come up with something really fking good. Because they won’t be rewarded if it comes off, so they’ll just sit tight and do what’s asked by the system. Look around you. Everything around you, everything you bought that’s really f
king good at what it’s for, everything really transformational, was brought into being by someone who wanted to be, or stay, rich. Take that motivation away and those things go away too. RichB said:
With regard to BL the mess certainly due to politics. I would agree that railways can be state owned and good, the German, Dutch and Swiss railways spring to mind. I would not be averse to adding railways to my list of essential services. However I would hate to see a minister of transport running it.
Sadly, the sceptic in me just knows that McDonnell's/Momentum's version of socialism would be to nationalise everything and establish their cronies in the top jobs with huge offices, in massive government owned buildings, maintained at huge public expense because that's what communists always do. Everyone is equal but there are always big pigs and little pigs.
post brexit why don't we just hire some swiss and germans to run our public services ? i might be jesting slightly but there are numerous examples of people/countries doing things better than we currently do,why not learn from them ? instead of clueless government ministers being put in charge of departments of things they know very little about (in many cases, not all) staffed by civil servants ,that will try and do things their own way anyway, just put them in charge of hiring people with a proven track record of success in specific areas.Sadly, the sceptic in me just knows that McDonnell's/Momentum's version of socialism would be to nationalise everything and establish their cronies in the top jobs with huge offices, in massive government owned buildings, maintained at huge public expense because that's what communists always do. Everyone is equal but there are always big pigs and little pigs.
SpeckledJim said:
I’d mainly agree, but it’s not going to happen, because a state run business doesn’t contain the people who will take a potentially career-ending risk to come up with something really fking good. Because they won’t be rewarded if it comes off, so they’ll just sit tight and do what’s asked by the system.
Look around you. Everything around you, everything you bought that’s really fking good at what it’s for, everything really transformational, was brought into being by someone who wanted to be, or stay, rich. Take that motivation away and those things go away too.
There other models though. You could have a state owned industry that pays and rewards. East Coast Main Line was owned by the govt for some years, paying private sector salaries and bonuses.king good. Because they won’t be rewarded if it comes off, so they’ll just sit tight and do what’s asked by the system. Look around you. Everything around you, everything you bought that’s really f
king good at what it’s for, everything really transformational, was brought into being by someone who wanted to be, or stay, rich. Take that motivation away and those things go away too. Or models where a % of the profits are distributed to the workers - more of a partnership model. It doesn't have to be privatised vs civil service intransigence.
DeejRC said:
Sigh. No there hasn’t. You are also incorrect with respect to confidence in the political class.
As every poor sod with a history degree will tell you, there have been plenty of times in British history when public confidence in its political class has been vastly lower than it is currently.
I’m sure you feel very passionately about all this, but alas it’s kinda snafu for our political “betters”.
that i wouldn't disagree with but i think the public are probably a lot closer to biggbnn's perception currently than many people imagine. the percentage of people boring enough to attain a history degree must be fairly low, i would hope As every poor sod with a history degree will tell you, there have been plenty of times in British history when public confidence in its political class has been vastly lower than it is currently.
I’m sure you feel very passionately about all this, but alas it’s kinda snafu for our political “betters”.
Burwood said:
El stovey said:
Burwood said:
Piha said:
Burwood said:
your username isn't the West Auckland beach by chance? If so are you a Kiwi
And a lovely beach it is too. Have you been recently?
Turning immigrant against immigrant
I was here first. 
Vaud said:
SpeckledJim said:
I’d mainly agree, but it’s not going to happen, because a state run business doesn’t contain the people who will take a potentially career-ending risk to come up with something really fking good. Because they won’t be rewarded if it comes off, so they’ll just sit tight and do what’s asked by the system.
Look around you. Everything around you, everything you bought that’s really fking good at what it’s for, everything really transformational, was brought into being by someone who wanted to be, or stay, rich. Take that motivation away and those things go away too.
There other models though. You could have a state owned industry that pays and rewards. East Coast Main Line was owned by the govt for some years, paying private sector salaries and bonuses.king good. Because they won’t be rewarded if it comes off, so they’ll just sit tight and do what’s asked by the system. Look around you. Everything around you, everything you bought that’s really f
king good at what it’s for, everything really transformational, was brought into being by someone who wanted to be, or stay, rich. Take that motivation away and those things go away too. Or models where a % of the profits are distributed to the workers - more of a partnership model. It doesn't have to be privatised vs civil service intransigence.
I’m all for govt running things that can’t be improved or made less expensive. Everything else, let’s rely on the guy who wants to be rich to find a really, really great idea.
That’s what’s got us this far.
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