Theresa May (Vol.2)
Discussion
ReaperCushions said:
Is she really the worst PM ever?
From a Remainers perspective, she has played it brilliantly. Political genius at play to ensure Brexit doesn't happen.
Two sides to this coin I'm afraid chaps.
If you really believe that, you are sadly mistaken. She is in fact just sFrom a Remainers perspective, she has played it brilliantly. Political genius at play to ensure Brexit doesn't happen.
Two sides to this coin I'm afraid chaps.
t at her job. Ask almost anyone in Parliament. Including her cabinet.Edited by GetCarter on Wednesday 22 May 14:45
GetCarter said:
Committing political suicide!
Get real... she is SO into keeping her position, she would sell her soul to remain in No 10.
She might sell her soul, but she wouldn't let no deal happen.Get real... she is SO into keeping her position, she would sell her soul to remain in No 10.
I wonder what the odds are on her getting an EU job. I'd imagine there are more lucrative opportunities for an ex-PM.
ReaperCushions said:
Is she really the worst PM ever?
From a Remainers perspective, she has played it brilliantly. Political genius at play to ensure Brexit doesn't happen.
Two sides to this coin I'm afraid chaps.
Whichever side we're individually on, we're all sharing in the terrible damage to our democracy that she is inflicting.From a Remainers perspective, she has played it brilliantly. Political genius at play to ensure Brexit doesn't happen.
Two sides to this coin I'm afraid chaps.
I'm going to place my first ever 'protest vote' tomorrow and I'm really not very happy about that, but it's my considered choice based on her unconscionable performance, and the dismal choices that she and the stupid, lamentable labour party have left me with.
SpeckledJim said:
Whichever side we're individually on, we're all sharing in the terrible damage to our democracy that she is inflicting.
I'm going to place my first ever 'protest vote' tomorrow and I'm really not very happy about that, but it's my considered choice based on her unconscionable performance, and the dismal choices that she and the stupid, lamentable labour party have left me with.
+ 1I'm going to place my first ever 'protest vote' tomorrow and I'm really not very happy about that, but it's my considered choice based on her unconscionable performance, and the dismal choices that she and the stupid, lamentable labour party have left me with.
amgmcqueen said:
May has destroyed British democracy and I'm afraid it doesn't get any worse than that.
What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
Rubbish.What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
May has tried desperately to get Brexit over the line. Her deal might be crap, but it's the only one we've got.
And secondly, why didn't a Brexiteer become PM instead? If Brexit doesn't happen it's not because of May, it's caused by 2 things:
1. The incompetence of the Brexiteers in the Tory Party
2. The greed of the Brexiteers in the Tory party who, instead of accepting the Brexit on offer, saw the lure of the promised land of 'no deal' and pushed for that.
ReaperCushions said:
Is she really the worst PM ever?
From a Remainers perspective, she has played it brilliantly. Political genius at play to ensure Brexit doesn't happen.
Two sides to this coin I'm afraid chaps.
If that's your objective, I think a skilled Remain PM would have had A50 rescinded by now.From a Remainers perspective, she has played it brilliantly. Political genius at play to ensure Brexit doesn't happen.
Two sides to this coin I'm afraid chaps.
May has seriously damaged the perception of democracy, which is bad. She has nothing to show for it. That's even worse.
You need "We're staying", not "Brexit hasn't happened" IMO - and I don't see how May could ever get you there. Except by complete accident
768 said:
3 years after a vote to leave and we're still in.
I'm not sure any other remainer could have played it better.
I'm not sure if this betrays a complete misunderstanding of the complexity of leaving the EU, or a complete over estimation of Theresa's ability. I'm not sure any other remainer could have played it better.
Either way its completely nuts.
A remain PM would have definitely been aiming for a confirmatory referendum; and wouldn't have jumped into bed with the ERG and DUP in the hopes that appeasement would work. The more she gave them, the more they wanted; until it got to the point it was impossible to appease them further.
oyster said:
amgmcqueen said:
May has destroyed British democracy and I'm afraid it doesn't get any worse than that.
What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
Rubbish.What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
May has tried desperately to get Brexit over the line. Her deal might be crap, but it's the only one we've got.
And secondly, why didn't a Brexiteer become PM instead? If Brexit doesn't happen it's not because of May, it's caused by 2 things:
1. The incompetence of the Brexiteers in the Tory Party
2. The greed of the Brexiteers in the Tory party who, instead of accepting the Brexit on offer, saw the lure of the promised land of 'no deal' and pushed for that.
On the other hand if no other deal was possible, then why call it a 'negotiation' and why let it take three years? She could have just asked Angela to email it over in August 2016.
This is very obviously a cynical, backstairs Brussels/Downing Street stitch-up, plain and simple.
Hopefully as a population our reaction not be to meekly roll-over but to strongly object. I have faith.
SpeckledJim said:
oyster said:
amgmcqueen said:
May has destroyed British democracy and I'm afraid it doesn't get any worse than that.
What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
Rubbish.What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
May has tried desperately to get Brexit over the line. Her deal might be crap, but it's the only one we've got.
And secondly, why didn't a Brexiteer become PM instead? If Brexit doesn't happen it's not because of May, it's caused by 2 things:
1. The incompetence of the Brexiteers in the Tory Party
2. The greed of the Brexiteers in the Tory party who, instead of accepting the Brexit on offer, saw the lure of the promised land of 'no deal' and pushed for that.
On the other hand if no other deal was possible, then why call it a 'negotiation' and why let it take three years? She could have just asked Angela to email it over in August 2016.
This is very obviously a cynical, backstairs Brussels/Downing Street stitch-up, plain and simple.
Hopefully as a population our reaction not be to meekly roll-over but to strongly object. I have faith.
The Tory party elected Theresa May; Brexiters and all voting for her.
She took a dictatorial approach; and tried her very hardest to keep Parliament out of it.
She called an election when she was riding high in the polls, and fluffed it by again taking a dictatorial approach. This failure led her to be more at the mercy of ERG, and beg for a deal from the DUP.
In making appeasements to them, she set out on a course to sever as many ties with the EU as she could; taking us out of as many treaties and organisations as possible, which led to the the big unsolved issue of the Irish border, and the need to maintain some kind of customs arrangements with the EU.
The job of Prime Minister after Cameron swanned off was always going to be an extremely difficult one. Theresa has proven herself incapable of the job.
Rivenink said:
SpeckledJim said:
oyster said:
amgmcqueen said:
May has destroyed British democracy and I'm afraid it doesn't get any worse than that.
What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
Rubbish.What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
May has tried desperately to get Brexit over the line. Her deal might be crap, but it's the only one we've got.
And secondly, why didn't a Brexiteer become PM instead? If Brexit doesn't happen it's not because of May, it's caused by 2 things:
1. The incompetence of the Brexiteers in the Tory Party
2. The greed of the Brexiteers in the Tory party who, instead of accepting the Brexit on offer, saw the lure of the promised land of 'no deal' and pushed for that.
On the other hand if no other deal was possible, then why call it a 'negotiation' and why let it take three years? She could have just asked Angela to email it over in August 2016.
This is very obviously a cynical, backstairs Brussels/Downing Street stitch-up, plain and simple.
Hopefully as a population our reaction not be to meekly roll-over but to strongly object. I have faith.
The Tory party elected Theresa May; Brexiters and all voting for her.
She took a dictatorial approach; and tried her very hardest to keep Parliament out of it.
She called an election when she was riding high in the polls, and fluffed it by again taking a dictatorial approach. This failure led her to be more at the mercy of ERG, and beg for a deal from the DUP.
In making appeasements to them, she set out on a course to sever as many ties with the EU as she could; taking us out of as many treaties and organisations as possible, which led to the the big unsolved issue of the Irish border, and the need to maintain some kind of customs arrangements with the EU.
The job of Prime Minister after Cameron swanned off was always going to be an extremely difficult one. Theresa has proven herself incapable of the job.
After failing to get her deal through, in asking for the extension to avoid delivering the only thing in the diary that both the country and parliament had voted for, she showed her hand.
Nothing can be achieved in the extension period that couldn't have been achieved before, except the lengthening of the period of time since the UK gave its government its instructions. But why would we want that, if our goal is, as repeatedly stated by everyone, to leave?
Stitch-up.
SpeckledJim said:
Rivenink said:
SpeckledJim said:
oyster said:
amgmcqueen said:
May has destroyed British democracy and I'm afraid it doesn't get any worse than that.
What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
Rubbish.What we've witnessed these last 3 years has been quite simply the most shameful episode ever witnessed in the history of British politics. Desperately trying to overturn a democratic decision by the electorate at every opportunity, kicking the can down the road time after time......anything to not implement the result of the referendum. It's a despicable breach of trust.
May has tried desperately to get Brexit over the line. Her deal might be crap, but it's the only one we've got.
And secondly, why didn't a Brexiteer become PM instead? If Brexit doesn't happen it's not because of May, it's caused by 2 things:
1. The incompetence of the Brexiteers in the Tory Party
2. The greed of the Brexiteers in the Tory party who, instead of accepting the Brexit on offer, saw the lure of the promised land of 'no deal' and pushed for that.
On the other hand if no other deal was possible, then why call it a 'negotiation' and why let it take three years? She could have just asked Angela to email it over in August 2016.
This is very obviously a cynical, backstairs Brussels/Downing Street stitch-up, plain and simple.
Hopefully as a population our reaction not be to meekly roll-over but to strongly object. I have faith.
The Tory party elected Theresa May; Brexiters and all voting for her.
She took a dictatorial approach; and tried her very hardest to keep Parliament out of it.
She called an election when she was riding high in the polls, and fluffed it by again taking a dictatorial approach. This failure led her to be more at the mercy of ERG, and beg for a deal from the DUP.
In making appeasements to them, she set out on a course to sever as many ties with the EU as she could; taking us out of as many treaties and organisations as possible, which led to the the big unsolved issue of the Irish border, and the need to maintain some kind of customs arrangements with the EU.
The job of Prime Minister after Cameron swanned off was always going to be an extremely difficult one. Theresa has proven herself incapable of the job.
After failing to get her deal through, in asking for the extension to avoid delivering the only thing in the diary that both the country and parliament had voted for, she showed her hand.
Nothing can be achieved in the extension period that couldn't have been achieved before, except the lengthening of the period of time since the UK gave its government its instructions. But why would we want that, if our goal is, as repeatedly stated by everyone, to leave?
Stitch-up.
2. Becuase a disorderly 'no deal' scenario would be extremely f
king stupid and cause massive disruption to the UK. An orderly exit from the EU is needed, and its sensible to extend until this is possible. Parliament has voted against everything.
We got within a few days of a 'disorderly' No Deal Brexit and what happened to the Pound, the Stock Market, and the wider economy? Bugger-all.
The level of disorder that a No Deal Brexit would have entailed also falls at the PM's door.
She did bugger-all preparation while tellinng us Brexit would not be cancelled or postponed and then said "We can't do this, there hasn't been enough preparation!"
Stitch-up.
We got within a few days of a 'disorderly' No Deal Brexit and what happened to the Pound, the Stock Market, and the wider economy? Bugger-all.
The level of disorder that a No Deal Brexit would have entailed also falls at the PM's door.
She did bugger-all preparation while tellinng us Brexit would not be cancelled or postponed and then said "We can't do this, there hasn't been enough preparation!"
Stitch-up.
Is it still the belief of Brexiteers that there is some magical agreement which means we essentially get all the things we want from the EU, without any of the pesky downsides like membership cost, freedom of movement, unified trade agreements, etc?
You can make a good argument that TM never went into this with the best intentions, being a Remainer herself, and therefore her negotiation was already flawed since the EU knew that her heart wasn't even in it. You can also make a good argument that she is personally stubborn and intransigent, and that she has sought to maintain personal and professional control at all costs, at the cost of getting the best deal possible and the country.
I don't however think that the magical deal that Brexiteers seem to think is easy enough to get is a realistic prospect. Nor, does it seem, do they all want a no real Brexit either judging by the majority on that vote.
So it seems we're stuck between TM's shambolic deal which is neither in or out, and a hypothetical magic "get everything we want" deal that could be struck if we just tried a bit harder with the EU...
You can make a good argument that TM never went into this with the best intentions, being a Remainer herself, and therefore her negotiation was already flawed since the EU knew that her heart wasn't even in it. You can also make a good argument that she is personally stubborn and intransigent, and that she has sought to maintain personal and professional control at all costs, at the cost of getting the best deal possible and the country.
I don't however think that the magical deal that Brexiteers seem to think is easy enough to get is a realistic prospect. Nor, does it seem, do they all want a no real Brexit either judging by the majority on that vote.
So it seems we're stuck between TM's shambolic deal which is neither in or out, and a hypothetical magic "get everything we want" deal that could be struck if we just tried a bit harder with the EU...
Edited by Durzel on Wednesday 22 May 15:59
SpeckledJim said:
Parliament has voted against everything.
We got within a few days of a 'disorderly' No Deal Brexit and what happened to the Pound, the Stock Market, and the wider economy? Bugger-all.
The level of disorder that a No Deal Brexit would have entailed also falls at the PM's door.
She did bugger-all preparation while tellinng us Brexit would not be cancelled or postponed and then said "We can't do this, there hasn't been enough preparation!"
Stitch-up.
She did bugger all preparation because she thought she was going to get her way, and she thought the threat of no deal would win her it. We got within a few days of a 'disorderly' No Deal Brexit and what happened to the Pound, the Stock Market, and the wider economy? Bugger-all.
The level of disorder that a No Deal Brexit would have entailed also falls at the PM's door.
She did bugger-all preparation while tellinng us Brexit would not be cancelled or postponed and then said "We can't do this, there hasn't been enough preparation!"
Stitch-up.
Was it a stitch up when the Brexiters like Rees-Mogg and Boris hoisted her up for a no-confidence vote, then decided that actually they did have confidence in her?
She's incompetent, they're incompetent.
And you're thinking its all a big conspiracy by May and the EU? Insanity.
As things stand i think she will be gone by friday morning.
Whether she was the architect of her own downfall is doubtful, personally, i think Hammond is the one who has lost the plot.
Once the night of the long knives is over, I don’t expect him to be anywhere near the cabinet for the rest of his political career.
Whether she was the architect of her own downfall is doubtful, personally, i think Hammond is the one who has lost the plot.
Once the night of the long knives is over, I don’t expect him to be anywhere near the cabinet for the rest of his political career.
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