Brexit: would you change your vote.
Discussion
esxste said:
Don't know if you've read the news recently, but it turns out the EU's top legal guy thinks we can just revoke the A.50, without permission from anyone else, and no need to negotiate any terms to remain.
Is that because we are the rich kid that all the other kids don't really like but play with him because he has the most expensive toys.And the risk of universal opprobrium, I've created a poll based on a three-choice question 
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I too voted leave at the time, and the way Juncker and his cronies have acted only reinforces my decision.
Yes both campaigns were crap, both lied, but the way we find this out is through the largely remain biased media.
I remember listening to 5 live the morning after in my commute, and that smug git Nicky Campbell was almost crying, it made my year it really did.
I made an informed decision, looked at graphs, data and did it.
No-one has still managed to exp,lain to me why there has to be free movement for free trade, it would be fine if that movement was balanced but it simply is not. It never will be, so the whole idea of that concept is flawed.
I have friends determined to protest, moaning that the economy increase by 3/5%. Well, live within your means. It's not that difficult, say that to them and all arguments stop.
Yes it means business will suffer, but frankly if you haven't been already sussing this out within the confines of your business you should be ex[ected to suffer.
Yes both campaigns were crap, both lied, but the way we find this out is through the largely remain biased media.
I remember listening to 5 live the morning after in my commute, and that smug git Nicky Campbell was almost crying, it made my year it really did.
I made an informed decision, looked at graphs, data and did it.
No-one has still managed to exp,lain to me why there has to be free movement for free trade, it would be fine if that movement was balanced but it simply is not. It never will be, so the whole idea of that concept is flawed.
I have friends determined to protest, moaning that the economy increase by 3/5%. Well, live within your means. It's not that difficult, say that to them and all arguments stop.
Yes it means business will suffer, but frankly if you haven't been already sussing this out within the confines of your business you should be ex[ected to suffer.
Tankrizzo said:
No, because although I think the implementation of the vote has been utterly shambolic and the government have been an inept disgrace over their handling of it, the principle of the vote to leave is the same (for me, anyway).
Agree with this. And the harder it is to leave the more we must leave before it becomes impossible.Hoofy said:
Ratski83 said:
Not changed my mind and wouldn’t even respect the result of a second referendum it would be yellow vests and pitchforks before it comes to that. 
How very european! 
Blue62 said:
colonel c said:
Leave. Better to be out before the whole project end up n tears and tatters. Close to half the populations of many EU countries are against it.
I'm not sure where you get the figures from, but I do have sympathy with this point, I think there's a lot of unease and disaffection throughout Europe at the moment and I think on many levels the EU has failed the citizens of Europe, but prosperity is ultimately the key in my view. It now seems inevitable that any from of Brexit will make us poorer, especially those people who used the referendum as a protest vote on austerity who will be even worse off outside the EU. I can't see a better solution than to stay in now and push for change from within, but I fully understand the frustration of people who wanted out.
If it was May's deal or No Deal I would vote No Deal. If it was Remain or Deal I wouldn't vote. Yellow vest time for me too.
I actually voted Remain in 2016 out of, I'm sorry to say, cowardice. Or at least out of head over heart pragmatism. Things seemed generally OK, I didn't like the EU but I didn't see any coherent plan for leaving and I didn't think going into it half cocked with an establishment who were basically pro Remain would work out well. I was right about the last bit. However I was pretty chuffed when the result came in and immediately regretted my vote.
There may be some difficulties and sacrifices, but it is never beneficial in the long term to live in a dictatorship.
I actually voted Remain in 2016 out of, I'm sorry to say, cowardice. Or at least out of head over heart pragmatism. Things seemed generally OK, I didn't like the EU but I didn't see any coherent plan for leaving and I didn't think going into it half cocked with an establishment who were basically pro Remain would work out well. I was right about the last bit. However I was pretty chuffed when the result came in and immediately regretted my vote.
There may be some difficulties and sacrifices, but it is never beneficial in the long term to live in a dictatorship.
Voted leave and would again, even more so, they’ve had two chances to keep us in by showing a bit of flexibility, once with Cameron’s attemp, twice with Teresa (dis)May. Our sovereignty was given away in the first place without a referendum, that was the major irk for me, being half way out will be an even bigger f
k up.
k up.
alfie2244 said:
GT119 said:
If the EU implodes then I guess we get kicked out anyway, so why leave now if it comes at an ongoing economic cost, why not wait and see.
So we should stick with the Titanic and not bother with the lifeboats? Not a member of an orchestra by any chance?To answer the topic - I voted remain, would do so again, but don’t want another vote. We voted, let’s just get on with things and make the best of it now.
james-witton said:
I voted leave and I still believe that we would be better out of the EU.
However, recent events have left me with no confidence that our self-serving, myopic politicians could get a positive deal.
So if there was another referendum (don’t think that there will be) I would reluctantly change my vote.
What would you do?
Sadly I think and would do the same. We were never going to get what we hoped for.However, recent events have left me with no confidence that our self-serving, myopic politicians could get a positive deal.
So if there was another referendum (don’t think that there will be) I would reluctantly change my vote.
What would you do?
Edited by macp on Tuesday 4th December 16:15
I had no preference before the referendum and was quite happy to plod along in my own little world.
Cameron's failure to renegotiate swayed my vote to leave together with the incessant hammering on from remainers.
I don't like being told what to do.
Now we have the same scenario with TM. Trying to polish a turd.
And we have the same incessant hammering from remainers.
Guess which way I would vote.
Cameron's failure to renegotiate swayed my vote to leave together with the incessant hammering on from remainers.
I don't like being told what to do.
Now we have the same scenario with TM. Trying to polish a turd.
And we have the same incessant hammering from remainers.
Guess which way I would vote.
Nickgnome said:
alfaspecial said:
The Remain side lost but the political class refuse to accept the result.
Our politicians live in their Westminster bubble. They are so focused on 'their' politics that they have, perhaps, forgotten that they are 'sent' to the House of Commons by their constituents.
Yes, in simple terms the referendum was 52:48 but had the referendum result been reported BY CONSTITUENCY then there was a far greater mandate for LEAVE.
By constituency only 230 out of 632 constituencies voted REMAIN
whereas 402 out of 632 voted LEAVE
That is a margin of 64:36
Source: Professor Chris Hanretty's analysis of the referendum result, if you'd care to check
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
Additional evidence
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
70% Conservative constituencies & 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave
footnote: Professor Hanretty's figure are for England, Scotland & Wales. NI has a different electoral system
I’m not sure what the point of your post is the vote was 52:48% in favour of leave. Trying to analyse in any other way is pretty pointless and will lead into comparisons of wealth creating/ taking areas, educational attainmment etc etc. Our politicians live in their Westminster bubble. They are so focused on 'their' politics that they have, perhaps, forgotten that they are 'sent' to the House of Commons by their constituents.
Yes, in simple terms the referendum was 52:48 but had the referendum result been reported BY CONSTITUENCY then there was a far greater mandate for LEAVE.
By constituency only 230 out of 632 constituencies voted REMAIN
whereas 402 out of 632 voted LEAVE
That is a margin of 64:36
Source: Professor Chris Hanretty's analysis of the referendum result, if you'd care to check
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1b71SDKPFbk...
Additional evidence
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservat...
70% Conservative constituencies & 60% of Labour constituencies voted leave
footnote: Professor Hanretty's figure are for England, Scotland & Wales. NI has a different electoral system
They may be interesting but completely irrelevant.
alfaspecial said:
Remain decided the timing, the question and the reporting. It's obvious that had the mandate been reported by constituency, as we so-say have in our so-say parliamentary democracy then a 64:36 vote IS conclusive.
Yet the Remain side are fixed on 52:48
Would you not agree that if parliamentarians reflected the views of their constituents then we would not be in the mess we are in today.
Two questions I'd be interested in hearing your answer to:
1) Would YOU be debating this had the result been 52:48 in favour of Remain?
2) Or would you just tell us Leavers to STFU?
As to your point 1. I believe Mr Farage had stayed a close call would be unfinished business so yes we would be discussing it.Yet the Remain side are fixed on 52:48
Would you not agree that if parliamentarians reflected the views of their constituents then we would not be in the mess we are in today.
Two questions I'd be interested in hearing your answer to:
1) Would YOU be debating this had the result been 52:48 in favour of Remain?
2) Or would you just tell us Leavers to STFU?
2 I can’t tell you anything. As far as my vote is concerned it is 1 man 1 vote.
In terms of business it has already caused damage which has I’m pacted wage increases, traing and and employment. So to protect the business more work is moved out of the UK. Not completely but enough to have made an impact on profit.
If the profitabilty of areas of the UK which are currently net contributors is adversely affected then there will be less subsidy to the less well off areas which is really just an extrapolation of keeping wealth to ourselves much heralded by Brexiteers.
Your manipulation of people’s individual votes is offensive so I will not respond further.
Saddened to see so many sticking with Remain through what would be a blatant establishment led undermining of a democratic vote. Not because I think remaining would or wouldn't be the ultimate best course of action, but because I'd have expected Brits on the whole to be principled enough to hold their nose and vote Leave on the basis that we had a democratic vote and were told it would be implemented whichever side won on the day, by whatever margin.
Agree or disagree with leaving the EU (and let's be honest, nobody knows for sure what the best course of action was/is for the UK), it would be very damaging to reverse this decision.
Agree or disagree with leaving the EU (and let's be honest, nobody knows for sure what the best course of action was/is for the UK), it would be very damaging to reverse this decision.
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