How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)

[Troubleatmill]

toppstuff said:

City_boy said:

Ah, the stupid gym membership analogy. Again.

Why is it a stupid analogy? Are we not either in or out ?
Does not the EU itself use a similar analogy ?

Why don’t you do some research about what EU leaders are on record about saying punishing the UK.

There is quite a bit to choose from.

And then come back to us to defend your argument.

[Oakey]

City_boy said:

Roboraver said:

Jeeze, the EU IS NOT punishing the UK, why can;t you understand if you leave a CLUB you lose the benefits, bejesus get off you high horse, try using the facilities of your GYM after leaving and see how that works out for you.

Ah, the stupid gym membership analogy. Again.

It's a strange gym where everyone who wants to do business with them has to join up first. Do the employees of businesses that sell this gym their equipment need to join beforehand? What about the cleaners who clean it? And the blokes who service and restock the vending machines? Or the window cleaners?

[SpeckledJim]

toppstuff said:

kayc said:

do spend time in the EU...I have property there which I spend a lot of time at .i also speak to many people there that would cherish a chance for a vote.Most the 'normal' Europeans I know cant understand why the EU wants to punish the UK so much...it highlights their concerns too.

And yet populist parties across Europe hold a max of 20% of the vote. This is the fact of things. Given so many countries operate under PR it’s causing all sorts of issues I grant that, but it is not a majority position.

Even under FPTP UKIP were strong enough to force/compel/inspire/provoke/frighten Cameron into cajoling parliament into holding the Brexit vote.

UKIP never got anywhere near real on-paper power in parliament, and never will, yet they 'won' their particular battle.

UKIP equivalents around Europe don't need majorities, they just need to opportunistically tip scales here and there.

With a very small share of the vote, UKIP managed to prompt the referendum, and then Labour and the Conservatives both agreed to follow-through on the result, in accord with UKIP's wishes. They did a lot with a little. (And then lost the plot)

[London424]

Two things that really stand out

The UK will have to stay in the backstop "even if the parties believe that talks have clearly broken down and there is no prospect of a future relationship agreement."

Britain "essentially treated as a third country by NI for goods passing from GB to NI".

No chance this will be voted through.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Yes, and no.

If we are out of the EU it doesn't mean as many Remainers would have you believe, that we cannot trade with or visit the EU member states. We can and will.

In that respect, it's more like a Nectar card - you spend lots of money in Sainsburys, they give you a little back. Not having a Nectar card does not stop you from shopping at Sainsburys, nor does it mean you hate Sainsburys.

Do people feel they are being punished for not having a Nectar card.

They certainly feel they are being punished by the EU for wanting to leave.

[Mothersruin]

FYI - If you fancy a read of the legal advice declared this morning.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting...

The advice is only on the NI issue - not the full advice as requested by Parliament.

[dai1983]

John145 said:

The amount of BS being spouted is brilliant.

The UK also contributes far more than it receives from the EU. Therefore any claim that the EU paid for a single thing to be built in the UK is complete BS.

I'm originally from an area that had millions of pounds redistributed there from the EU. After years of "managed decline" by Westminster the EU decided to fund most of a new dual carriageway where I expect Westminster would have pissed against the wall elsewhere.

Edited by dai1983 on Wednesday 5th December 13:00

[alfie2244]

Mothersruin said:

FYI - If you fancy a read of the legal advice declared this morning.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting...

The advice is only on the NI issue - not the full advice as requested by Parliament.

Was Bill Cash saying there is still legal advice not yet disclosed?

[Mothersruin]

alfie2244 said:

Mothersruin said:

FYI - If you fancy a read of the legal advice declared this morning.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting...

The advice is only on the NI issue - not the full advice as requested by Parliament.

Was Bill Cash saying ithere is still legal advice not yet disclosed?

Yup.

[Tuna]

Ghibli said:

Do people feel they are being punished for not having a Nectar card.

They certainly feel they are being punished by the EU for wanting to leave.

Welcome back

I think some people are getting a little hysterical over a Nectar card, without which they apparently cannot survive.

[don'tbesilly]

Ghibli said:

Tuna said:

Tyre Smoke said:

Yes, and no.

If we are out of the EU it doesn't mean as many Remainers would have you believe, that we cannot trade with or visit the EU member states. We can and will.

In that respect, it's more like a Nectar card - you spend lots of money in Sainsburys, they give you a little back. Not having a Nectar card does not stop you from shopping at Sainsburys, nor does it mean you hate Sainsburys.

Do people feel they are being punished for not having a Nectar card.

They certainly feel they are being punished by the EU for wanting to leave.

You'll be alright, you've got one of these:

[Vanden Saab]

Mothersruin said:

FYI - If you fancy a read of the legal advice declared this morning.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting...

The advice is only on the NI issue - not the full advice as requested by Parliament.

Do they really think they will get away with that... The rest must be properly bad if they have published only this which is pretty bad...

[saaby93]

Mothersruin said:

alfie2244 said:

Mothersruin said:

FYI - If you fancy a read of the legal advice declared this morning.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting...

The advice is only on the NI issue - not the full advice as requested by Parliament.

Was Bill Cash saying ithere is still legal advice not yet disclosed?

Yup.

Maybe it is the full advice

[dai1983]

kayc said:

do spend time in the EU...I have property there which I spend a lot of time at .i also speak to many people there that would cherish a chance for a vote.Most the 'normal' Europeans I know cant understand why the EU wants to punish the UK so much...it highlights their concerns too.

Given your straight from a social media meme opinion about us winning the war and being punished, sorry if I'm imagining you telling them that "they'd be speaking German if it wasn't for us".

Edited by dai1983 on Wednesday 5th December 13:08

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

Welcome back

I think some people are getting a little hysterical over a Nectar card, without which they apparently cannot survive.

I think you will find that people feel they are being punished.

The trading with the EU as a non member will not be better, no matter how much people complain they are being punished.

Where you get the idea that people say that we can't trade with the EU after we have left is a mystery.

[Murph7355]

Polite M135 driver said:

City_boy said:

‘En masse’ they wanted to leave the EU.

obviously, that's what we're talking about. Unfortunately 'en masse' the electorate is making the wrong choice for the country and most probably themselves as individuals too. Remember, the areas that receive highest levels of EU funding were also those that voted most strongly to leave.

"Wrong" because you think so? Or wrong because a proportion of 650 MPs think so? Remember that group includes Abbott, Rayner, McDonnell, Johnson etc. Or wrong because 600+ economists said so?

NOWHERE in the UK receives EU funding. Some areas get a proportion of what the UK gives to the EU back and are told what it must be spent on.

That seems to escape remain voters often (as we're talking about being wrong).

Personally I'd rather have politicians as close to the place the money is needed making those decisions. They can be better held to account that way, and better able to determine direction on the balance of needs.

[alfie2244]

saaby93 said:

Mothersruin said:

alfie2244 said:

Mothersruin said:

FYI - If you fancy a read of the legal advice declared this morning.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/exiting...

The advice is only on the NI issue - not the full advice as requested by Parliament.

Was Bill Cash saying ithere is still legal advice not yet disclosed?

Yup.

Maybe it is the full advice

I could be entirely wrong but I believe only the advice about the NI backstop may have been released not the full advice relating to the legality of the entire WA.

[Piha]

Murph7355 said:

Polite M135 driver said:

City_boy said:

‘En masse’ they wanted to leave the EU.

obviously, that's what we're talking about. Unfortunately 'en masse' the electorate is making the wrong choice for the country and most probably themselves as individuals too. Remember, the areas that receive highest levels of EU funding were also those that voted most strongly to leave.

"Wrong" because you think so? Or wrong because a proportion of 650 MPs think so? Remember that group includes Abbott, Rayner, McDonnell, Johnson etc. Or wrong because 600+ economists said so?

NOWHERE in the UK receives EU funding. Some areas get a proportion of what the UK gives to the EU back and are told what it must be spent on.

That seems to escape remain voters often (as we're talking about being wrong).

Personally I'd rather have politicians as close to the place the money is needed making those decisions. They can be better held to account that way, and better able to determine direction on the balance of needs.

If I allow you to use my top paddock for your horses but we agree it costs you £5.00 per year, thus you happily giving me that £5.00, then who does that £5.00 belong to? Me or you?

[gooner1]

dai1983 said:

John145 said:

The amount of BS being spouted is brilliant.

The UK also contributes far more than it receives from the EU. Therefore any claim that the EU paid for a single thing to be built in the UK is complete BS.

I'm originally from an area that had millions of pounds redistributed there from the EU. After years of "managed decline" by Westminster the EU decided to fund most of a new dual carriageway where I expect Westminster would have pissed against the wall elsewhere.

Edited by dai1983 on Wednesday 5th December 13:00

Great, perhaps they'll let you have a couple of cars too, next time.

[Murph7355]

dai1983 said:

I'm originally from an area that had millions of pounds redistributed there from the EU. After years of "managed decline" by Westminster the EU decided to fund most of a new dual carriageway where I expect Westminster would have pissed against the wall elsewhere...

One man's "pissed up the wall elsewhere" is another man's "new dual carriageway"

I'd rather the man making those decisions was voted for by people in this country, a citizen of this country and wholly accountable to this country etc.