How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)
Discussion
What’s frustrating me about the current impasse is this:
the last time I checked none of these options were on the ballot paper:
- Leave so long as we get a deal first
- Leave so long as our economy isn’t affected
- Leave so long as there’s a majority in parliament for a plan
- Leave so long as those who voted remain are also satisfied
Madness
the last time I checked none of these options were on the ballot paper:
- Leave so long as we get a deal first
- Leave so long as our economy isn’t affected
- Leave so long as there’s a majority in parliament for a plan
- Leave so long as those who voted remain are also satisfied
Madness
PurpleMoonlight said:
Not everyone opposes closer integration with the EU.
True, but looking back on the vote to stay in the EU, odd that next to no one stood up and was ever saying this. Losing a referendum by looking at your feet and muttering how the EU is a bit s
t, but better than the impending economic collapse....that never came. No wonder they didn't inspire people to get out of bed and vote. How many of the 48% do we think are really actually pro EU and pro closer integration ? I'd say less than half the 48% are, the rest just having no real like or love for the EU, but buying the ' too late to leave/economic collapse' argument. You can't really say that about the Leave side. The only disconnect is Parliament, who are an opposite representation to the people on this.
ash73 said:
sunbeam alpine said:
What am I missing?
It's not just about money.I have friends and family in the UK who have very little in the way of savings, and who would be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs due to an economic downturn.
johnxjsc1985 said:
I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong but we cannot agree trade deals with another Country unless it goes through the EU first. this is one of the main reason given for leaving the EU restricts our ability to trade outside the EU.
You are wrong.We cant agree trade deals with another country, full stop, if members of the EU.
The same will apply under the current WA terms too.
sunbeam alpine said:
That's a very noble view if you can afford it.
I have friends and family in the UK who have very little in the way of savings, and who would be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs due to an economic downturn.
Well they are fI have friends and family in the UK who have very little in the way of savings, and who would be in serious trouble if they lost their jobs due to an economic downturn.
ked then, because leave or stay, another downturn is coming. dan98 said:
sunbeam alpine said:
I couldn't vote in the referendum - I've been out of the UK for too long - but I'm pretty sure I would have voted remain. I do however agree that there is now no way that the UK can turn back the clock - staying in the EU is not an option.
What I don't understand is how the UK can protect it's current trading arrangement with EU countries while wanting to leave the Single Market & Customs Union. The UK - being no longer a member, cannot trade on the same terms.
I've seen various figures quoted - ranging from 36% to 44% - which represent the export business we do with the EU. I can accept that means that we do more trade with the rest of the world, but if that's so, what's stopped us from increasing trade with ROW while we've been EU members?
My simplistic (maybe wrong?) view is this - we have taken a decision which will probably (at least in the short term) make it more difficult to trade with at least 36% of our existing customers. The payback is that we could - in the future - grow new business more easily in new markets.
As a (tiny) business owner, I would run a mile from this - risk upsetting/losing about a third of my customers - in the hope of winning new business to replace it.
What am I missing?
57% of our exports go to the EU, of which 13% passes through to other countries. (Not including the latest deals with Canada and Japan)What I don't understand is how the UK can protect it's current trading arrangement with EU countries while wanting to leave the Single Market & Customs Union. The UK - being no longer a member, cannot trade on the same terms.
I've seen various figures quoted - ranging from 36% to 44% - which represent the export business we do with the EU. I can accept that means that we do more trade with the rest of the world, but if that's so, what's stopped us from increasing trade with ROW while we've been EU members?
My simplistic (maybe wrong?) view is this - we have taken a decision which will probably (at least in the short term) make it more difficult to trade with at least 36% of our existing customers. The payback is that we could - in the future - grow new business more easily in new markets.
As a (tiny) business owner, I would run a mile from this - risk upsetting/losing about a third of my customers - in the hope of winning new business to replace it.
What am I missing?
...not that any of these figures are of interest to the average Brexit voter.
The Dangerous Elk said:
Like most of them they are happy to follow the great Tony Blair and his fellow democratic EU "members" to the bright socialist European utopia.
Tony fking Blair. fk him. Anyway, the real socialists of UK see through the smoke and mirrors - something I love to bring up with 'leftie' colleagues of the Blair-Is-God variety.https://www.socialistparty.org.uk/articles/22495/3...
gooner1 said:
Helicopter123 said:
Fittster said:
ash73 said:
sunbeam alpine said:
What am I missing?
It's not just about money.Why am I not suprised.
The ability to work, travel and study within the EU is a great thing.
We have the tools already to control immigration into the UK but choose not to use them, that's hardly the fault of the EU.
otis criblecoblis said:
True, but looking back on the vote to stay in the EU, odd that next to no one stood up and was ever saying this. Losing a referendum by looking at your feet and muttering how the EU is a bit st, but better than the impending economic collapse....that never came. No wonder they didn't inspire people to get out of bed and vote.
How many of the 48% do we think are really actually pro EU and pro closer integration ? I'd say less than half the 48% are, the rest just having no real like or love for the EU, but buying the ' too late to leave/economic collapse' argument. You can't really say that about the Leave side. The only disconnect is Parliament, who are an opposite representation to the people on this.
Maybe.t, but better than the impending economic collapse....that never came. No wonder they didn't inspire people to get out of bed and vote. How many of the 48% do we think are really actually pro EU and pro closer integration ? I'd say less than half the 48% are, the rest just having no real like or love for the EU, but buying the ' too late to leave/economic collapse' argument. You can't really say that about the Leave side. The only disconnect is Parliament, who are an opposite representation to the people on this.
Maybe more than half of leave voters bought into project utopia.
Helicopter123 said:
I'm in favour of Freedom of Movement.
The ability to work, travel and study within the EU is a great thing.
We have the tools already to control immigration into the UK but choose not to use them, that's hardly the fault of the EU.
How do you control EU immigration to help bring it down to Remainer May's 100k target for all immigration ? Leave aside if the target is sensible or not, but focus on what controls they have that would cut the numbers down to say 50k net a year. The ability to work, travel and study within the EU is a great thing.
We have the tools already to control immigration into the UK but choose not to use them, that's hardly the fault of the EU.
jsf said:
catso said:
Doesn't stop businesses from doing deals with other countries though.
The majority of business does deals with businesses and people.It does put barriers in the way that could be removed, or do you not understand what the customs union does?
I enjoy the benefits of the EU with regards to trade and will miss them them when (if?) they are gone, as such I voted remain primarily to retain that but I wanted to point out to some on here who may not be aware that it is already possible to deal fairly easily with non EU countries.
PurpleMoonlight said:
otis criblecoblis said:
True, but looking back on the vote to stay in the EU, odd that next to no one stood up and was ever saying this. Losing a referendum by looking at your feet and muttering how the EU is a bit st, but better than the impending economic collapse....that never came. No wonder they didn't inspire people to get out of bed and vote.
How many of the 48% do we think are really actually pro EU and pro closer integration ? I'd say less than half the 48% are, the rest just having no real like or love for the EU, but buying the ' too late to leave/economic collapse' argument. You can't really say that about the Leave side. The only disconnect is Parliament, who are an opposite representation to the people on this.
Maybe.t, but better than the impending economic collapse....that never came. No wonder they didn't inspire people to get out of bed and vote. How many of the 48% do we think are really actually pro EU and pro closer integration ? I'd say less than half the 48% are, the rest just having no real like or love for the EU, but buying the ' too late to leave/economic collapse' argument. You can't really say that about the Leave side. The only disconnect is Parliament, who are an opposite representation to the people on this.
Maybe more than half of leave voters bought into project utopia.
Gut feeling, but just from the campaigning where Remain had no positive case and avoided actually sounding really pro EU, and focused on selling doom as a way to win votes, far more Remain voters simply didn't fancy a risk of leaving despite having no love for the EU.
otis criblecoblis said:
See, I don't buy that. I'd say of the leave vote they were mostly always leave people, perhaps way back and long before the immigration wave took place that is so often rolled out as the sole reason too.
Gut feeling, but just from the campaigning where Remain had no positive case and avoided actually sounding really pro EU, and focused on selling doom as a way to win votes, far more Remain voters simply didn't fancy a risk of leaving despite having no love for the EU.
I didn't think for a second that you would.Gut feeling, but just from the campaigning where Remain had no positive case and avoided actually sounding really pro EU, and focused on selling doom as a way to win votes, far more Remain voters simply didn't fancy a risk of leaving despite having no love for the EU.
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