How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
It's perhaps unreasonable to expect Londoners to understand the sentiment rest of the country, just as it's perhaps unreasonable to expect the rest of the country to understand London.
We all feel we understand the whole picture, but whichever camp we fall into, I fear the vast majority, including myself, really don't.
Brexit was one huge f
king shock for London, and they've not got their heads around it yet. Maybe never will.
I agree. We all feel we understand the whole picture, but whichever camp we fall into, I fear the vast majority, including myself, really don't.
Brexit was one huge f
king shock for London, and they've not got their heads around it yet. Maybe never will. alfie2244 said:
He was talking about country not an artifiicial political construct...............however much you, Junker et al want the UK to be a member of the USoEU I can't see it happening myself.
Again, so?The argument is that if you don't like the system under which you live you can always leave it and live somewhere else.
Patriotism and pride in your Country is not obligatory.
Amateurish said:
Russian Troll Bot said:
They tried running the anti-Brexit manifesto in the last election, it failed completely and they are more irrelevant than ever. Also have to love the irony of a party with Democrats in their name staking everything on cancelling a democratic vote.
Actually, they campaigned for a second referendum on the terms of the exit. Although I do agree that they failed. A clear anti-Brexit manifesto might have been more successful. But the Lib Dems couldn't get anywhere near a majority in parliament, and if they got enough to force themselves into a coalition, they'd be the junior partner against a party that won a lot more seats on the opposite policy.
In terms of their short-term practical survival, it might be worth swallowing their self-respect and going for it, though.
PurpleMoonlight said:
alfie2244 said:
He was talking about country not an artifiicial political construct...............however much you, Junker et al want the UK to be a member of the USoEU I can't see it happening myself.
Again, so?The argument is that of you don't like the system under which you live you can always leave it and live somewhere else.
Patriotism and pride in your Country is not obligatory.
SpeckledJim said:
It's perhaps unreasonable to expect Londoners to understand the sentiment rest of the country, just as it's perhaps unreasonable to expect the rest of the country to understand London.
We all feel we understand the whole picture, but whichever camp we fall into, I fear the vast majority, including myself, really don't.
Brexit was one huge fking shock for London, and they've not got their heads around it yet. Maybe never will.
Do those outside London understand that the square mile contributes 11% of total UK tax take? If you took the whole of London the figure would be much higher. Given that Brexit threatens UK financial services, this tax take will most likely decrease. What are we going to replace that with?We all feel we understand the whole picture, but whichever camp we fall into, I fear the vast majority, including myself, really don't.
Brexit was one huge f
king shock for London, and they've not got their heads around it yet. Maybe never will. https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/business/economic-...
saaby93 said:
Has anyone posted that Norway rejects the UK joining EFTA?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/n...
No deal or No Brexit. Helps clarify things doesn't it https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/n...
May's deal is so awful it is not even worth considering.
crankedup said:
Amazing that you tell us that your bubble pals feel safe and stable in the EU. Get help when needed and get educated.Is all that thanks to the EU ?
Also it sounds like you advocate sucking on the EU teat is somehow life’s true path. Your discription is indicative of little plebs being led by the collar. Sod that, I prefer the alternative route of building my own path.
Errr. I don’t know where to be begin to answer that rant !Also it sounds like you advocate sucking on the EU teat is somehow life’s true path. Your discription is indicative of little plebs being led by the collar. Sod that, I prefer the alternative route of building my own path.
My point is that the EU provides what you may call “‘macro big picture structure “ while their own Governments look after their daily lives. It works. They don’t feel the need to blow the whole thing to pieces and run away like we do.
Instead, they concentrate on their own lives and feel the EU isn’t holding them back from doing what the heck want to do - if anything free movement increases their ability to do whatever they feel like. Ironically you could say that freedom of movement actively allows them to “ build their own path “ to do what they want wherever they want.
A good example is a Bulgarian woman I work with , living in Antwerp and with a house also in Spain where her mother often goes to enjoy the warmer weather. She went to university in Italy. I think you can call that “building your own path “.
crankedup said:
toppstuff said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
And where did Macron come from other than a last desperate attempt to stem the rise of Anti EU/Dissatisfaction with the Status Quo ?, not going well in France is it.
Just because you live in a Pro-Eu friends/work bubble does not make you correct.
And just because you live in an anti-EU Just because you live in a Pro-Eu friends/work bubble does not make you correct.
-raging-at-the- Eurocrats bubble doesn’t make you right either.
I spend maybe 50% of my time in the countries I’ve mentioned. People don’t regard the EU as perfect - they get frustrated too - but they generally get on with their lives and being Dutch / Irish / German and enjoying their customs and identities. They don’t feel the need to express some nationalistic force. They are pragmatic and just get on with life.
Truly most of them think we are a strange bunch worrying about all the wrong things. Inside the EU they feel safe and stable. They are free to do what they want, get care when sick and educated well. The rest is up to them- they don’t need to be on some independence crusade to an unknown destination like the Brits do.
Also it sounds like you advocate sucking on the EU teat is somehow life’s true path. Your discription is indicative of little plebs being led by the collar. Sod that, I prefer the alternative route of building my own path.
s1962a said:
Do those outside London understand that the square mile contributes 11% of total UK tax take? If you took the whole of London the figure would be much higher. Given that Brexit threatens UK financial services, this tax take will most likely decrease. What are we going to replace that with?
https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/business/economic-...
Have you not managed to work out that BREXIT is not about money yet ?https://www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/business/economic-...
saaby93 said:
Has anyone posted that Norway rejects the UK joining EFTA?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/n...
Time to tell them to stick their christmas tree, ungrateful without us they would be speaking german etc etc.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/n...
PurpleMoonlight said:
I'm sure some believe wholeheartedly that the EU will attack us if they ever get an army.
Off topic slightlyBut the EU does not realistically need its own army to defend against external threats. The most likely use for such a force is to suppress internal independence movements.
Similar to the way Catalonia couldn't succeed from Spain as the Spanish authorities sent in state forces to prevent it.
alfie2244 said:
pgh said:
toppstuff said:
You crossed a line there.
You don’t know me at all you worm.
You know nothing about my pride.
You know nothing about what I’ve done for this country.
You know nothing about anything. You make broad assumptions and refuse to challenge your belief systems. You have a pre conceived set of views and alter your interpretation of facts to fit them. A sure sign of limited intellect.
How dare you question my pride in this country.
Now FTFO you fker.
All getting a bit much for you? The other poster didn't start name calling or use foul language. You don’t know me at all you worm.
You know nothing about my pride.
You know nothing about what I’ve done for this country.
You know nothing about anything. You make broad assumptions and refuse to challenge your belief systems. You have a pre conceived set of views and alter your interpretation of facts to fit them. A sure sign of limited intellect.
How dare you question my pride in this country.
Now FTFO you f
ker. 
toppstuff said:
Tuna said:
I would suggest that most of them feel safe and stable and don't ascribe that feeling to membership of a distant political construct.
Are they any better at knowing their MEP's names than we are? Do they wave EU flags at parties? Or are they just getting on with their lives as most people do and not looking much further than their commute to work and holidays with their families?
No I would say you are wrong there. Are they any better at knowing their MEP's names than we are? Do they wave EU flags at parties? Or are they just getting on with their lives as most people do and not looking much further than their commute to work and holidays with their families?
Most of them at some high level “ get” the big picture plan of the EU. They are all acutely aware of their history as occupied lands that were razed in the war. They know the EU was created out of the ashes of this to provide sustainable peace. They get that. And it’s important. So I think you’re wrong. The “political construct “ is important.
It doesn’t stop Dutch people taking the mickey out of Belgians or Germans insulting the French. But they all seem to be laughing at the Brits with alarm. Like an old uncle who starts banging his head against the wall and won’t stop. It’s a mix of mocking laughter and concern.
The UK spent hundreds of thousands of its citizens lives, and billions of pounds, in helping to free Europe from the Nazi`s, and now it seems they want to punish the UK for wanting to leave the political construct known as the EU. My Belgian relatives have stated a completely different view to the one you seem to think exists there, and wished their countries leaders had the nerve to get out of the construct. For too many years the UK has been buying the EU a nice Ferrari for Christmas, and getting an electric toothbrush in return. Citizens only want to do that for so long in the hope that the EU will do the right thing by the country which is its second greatest net contributor of funds, and biggest single market for `Its' goods and services, but after decades, it seems they will not, nor ever will.
JagLover said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
I'm sure some believe wholeheartedly that the EU will attack us if they ever get an army.
Off topic slightlyBut the EU does not realistically need its own army to defend against external threats. The most likely use for such a force is to suppress internal independence movements.
Similar to the way Catalonia couldn't succeed from Spain as the Spanish authorities sent in state forces to prevent it.
citizensm1th said:
saaby93 said:
Has anyone posted that Norway rejects the UK joining EFTA?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/n...
Time to tell them to stick their christmas tree, ungrateful without us they would be speaking german etc etc.https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/07/n...
ECJ to rule on Morning morning whether to uphold the AG's advice.
The parliamentary vote on Tuesday which most consider will be lost.
Dominic Grieve's amendment comes into play.
SI drafted and implemented to extend Article 50 (Definition of Leave Date) subject to agreement with Eu.
Parliament takes control.
Or
The government forced to adopt the Fasttrack procedure to withdraw Article 50 unilaterally. (Highly unlikely)
The parliamentary vote on Tuesday which most consider will be lost.
Dominic Grieve's amendment comes into play.
SI drafted and implemented to extend Article 50 (Definition of Leave Date) subject to agreement with Eu.
Parliament takes control.
Or
The government forced to adopt the Fasttrack procedure to withdraw Article 50 unilaterally. (Highly unlikely)
JagLover said:
But the EU does not realistically need its own army to defend against external threats. The most likely use for such a force is to suppress internal independence movements.
Truly chap , go to a cafe in Stockholm, Dublin or Amsterdam and offer that point of view and people would burst out laughing. You really should go and spend some time there. You are so far off !
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