How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 6)
Discussion
toppstuff said:
You are deluded and totally incorrect.
You clearly don’t spend any time in the EU.
Yes there is a rise in UKIP style parties but they remain a noisy minority. Dutch and Irish for example are overwhelmingly pro EU. Gert Wilders in The Netherlands barely managed 15% of the vote.
The EU holds together precisely because it was created from a broken continent to stop it happening again. Europeans are acutely aware of their history.
You are clearly wrong.You clearly don’t spend any time in the EU.
Yes there is a rise in UKIP style parties but they remain a noisy minority. Dutch and Irish for example are overwhelmingly pro EU. Gert Wilders in The Netherlands barely managed 15% of the vote.
The EU holds together precisely because it was created from a broken continent to stop it happening again. Europeans are acutely aware of their history.
Remind us what percentage of the vote UKIP had in the 2015 General Election.
Remind us what happened in the vote on our EU membership the following year.
Now try and assess why the EU don’t want other countries to vote on this topic alone.
The amount of BS being spouted is brilliant.
Let's start with simple facts:
NATO was setup to avoid another European war.
The EEC was setup to make inter European trading easier.
The EU was setup to make a nation state of Europe.
The UK also contributes far more than it receives from the EU. Therefore any claim that the EU paid for a single thing to be built in the UK is complete BS.
Your MEP has no power to propose legislation. Therefore there is no point writing to them. They simply get a vote to ratify what is proposed. 1 in 751.
Your MEP also has no process for suggesting to the EC any legislation.
And finally the EC clearly does not listen to the people as is demonstrated time and time again.
Let's start with simple facts:
NATO was setup to avoid another European war.
The EEC was setup to make inter European trading easier.
The EU was setup to make a nation state of Europe.
The UK also contributes far more than it receives from the EU. Therefore any claim that the EU paid for a single thing to be built in the UK is complete BS.
Your MEP has no power to propose legislation. Therefore there is no point writing to them. They simply get a vote to ratify what is proposed. 1 in 751.
Your MEP also has no process for suggesting to the EC any legislation.
And finally the EC clearly does not listen to the people as is demonstrated time and time again.
kayc said:
do spend time in the EU...I have property there which I spend a lot of time at .i also speak to many people there that would cherish a chance for a vote.Most the 'normal' Europeans I know cant understand why the EU wants to punish the UK so much...it highlights their concerns too.
Jeeze, the EU IS NOT punishing the UK, why can;t you understand if you leave a CLUB you lose the benefits, bejesus get off you high horse, try using the facilities of your GYM after leaving and see how that works out for you.Roboraver said:
Jeeze, the EU IS NOT punishing the UK, why can;t you understand if you leave a CLUB you lose the benefits, bejesus get off you high horse, try using the facilities of your GYM after leaving and see how that works out for you.
Ah, the stupid gym membership analogy. Again.legal advice said:
In conclusion: the current drafting of the Protocol, including Article 19, does not provide for a mechanism that is likely to enable the UK lawfully to exit the UK wide customs union without a subsequent agreement. This remains the case even if parties are still negotiating many uears later, and even if the parties believe that talks have clearly broken down and there is no prospect of a future relationship agreement. The resolution of such a stalemate would have to be political.
It appears the legal advice says that the withdrawal agreement would indeed commit the UK to a perpetual customs union so long as the EU wished it to be so. That is a serious betrayal of the process by May and highlights the dishonesty of various parties pushing this agreement.kayc said:
do spend time in the EU...I have property there which I spend a lot of time at .i also speak to many people there that would cherish a chance for a vote.Most the 'normal' Europeans I know cant understand why the EU wants to punish the UK so much...it highlights their concerns too.
And yet populist parties across Europe hold a max of 20% of the vote. This is the fact of things. Given so many countries operate under PR it’s causing all sorts of issues I grant that, but it is not a majority position. toppstuff said:
And yet populist parties across Europe hold a max of 20% of the vote. This is the fact of things. Given so many countries operate under PR it’s causing all sorts of issues I grant that, but it is not a majority position.
See above - feel free to avoid addressing the issue. Again.City_boy said:
Roboraver said:
Jeeze, the EU IS NOT punishing the UK, why can;t you understand if you leave a CLUB you lose the benefits, bejesus get off you high horse, try using the facilities of your GYM after leaving and see how that works out for you.
Ah, the stupid gym membership analogy. Again.I'm not sure how that's stupid?
kayc said:
ery well put..its amazing how our politicians have slowly given all the power to the EU over the last 45 years...I actually found it hard watching European leaders on Remembrance day trying to show respect to the millions that fell for freedom twice ..they now try and f
k the country that gave them that ..respect should be more than laying a few poppies.
WW1 we weren’t exactly fighting for anyone’s freedom though. Heck, we had refused Irish their freedom (democratically voted for - Ireland had returned a majority of MPs with only independence/ home rule as their issue as soon as secret ballots started) and they were willing to have an armed rebellion for freedom in 1916.k the country that gave them that ..respect should be more than laying a few poppies.toppstuff said:
City_boy said:
Ah, the stupid gym membership analogy. Again.
Why is it a stupid analogy? Are we not either in or out ?Does not the EU itself use a similar analogy ?
If we are out of the EU it doesn't mean as many Remainers would have you believe, that we cannot trade with or visit the EU member states. We can and will.
City_boy said:
toppstuff said:
Where your posts are concerned it is hard to understand what “issues” you are addressing.
Make yourself clear man.
It is very clear. Make yourself clear man.
Use English. Make your case. I’ll answer any question you want but right now I’ve got no clue what you are asking me.
Tyre Smoke said:
Yes, and no.
If we are out of the EU it doesn't mean as many Remainers would have you believe, that we cannot trade with or visit the EU member states. We can and will.
In that respect, it's more like a Nectar card - you spend lots of money in Sainsburys, they give you a little back. Not having a Nectar card does not stop you from shopping at Sainsburys, nor does it mean you hate Sainsburys.If we are out of the EU it doesn't mean as many Remainers would have you believe, that we cannot trade with or visit the EU member states. We can and will.
Tyre Smoke said:
toppstuff said:
City_boy said:
Ah, the stupid gym membership analogy. Again.
Why is it a stupid analogy? Are we not either in or out ?Does not the EU itself use a similar analogy ?
If we are out of the EU it doesn't mean as many Remainers would have you believe, that we cannot trade with or visit the EU member states. We can and will.
The analogy stands
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