Triple child killer cleared for release
Discussion
Penelope Stopit said:
Life is cheap in the UK, the system is broken and requires people with common sense to fix it
The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Such as? If it was that common and obvious I'm sure all the countries would like to hear it. The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
otolith said:
I think that's wishful thinking. In many of these cases the perpetrators are simply incapable of those feelings.
Quite right. Someone who isn’t a confirmed, tested psychopath, couldn’t possibly understand just how different from ‘the norm’ their way of thinking is. Without a panel of ( or at least one representative example ) of a psychopath doing the parole hearing, or assessing the findings of such a panel, they run a high risk of releasing a lying, scheming, manipulative, dangerous individual back into society. Even an experienced shrink could be fooled by someone as obviously devoid of any empathy, or ability to see things through ‘normal’ eyes.La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Life is cheap in the UK, the system is broken and requires people with common sense to fix it
The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Such as? If it was that common and obvious I'm sure all the countries would like to hear it. The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Many more included in that list. Yes it's a cultural taboo but some people can never repay their debt to society, or be given a chance at redemption.
Volvo1956 said:
The Surveyor said:
I thought they had removed the 'whole life' tariff off the sentencing guidelines, indicating that locking somebody up without any potential for release was unlawful?
Personally, I'm drawn on this case, as horrific as the crime was, it was a single barbaric drunken act and very different to the multiple murders undertaken by others. He was sentenced to serve at least 20 years after pleading guilty and has now served 45, 'if' he no longer represents a risk (and taking the emotion of the crime out of the equation) I can't see why he shouldn't be released under strict terms like any other murderer.
A single drunken barbaric act.Personally, I'm drawn on this case, as horrific as the crime was, it was a single barbaric drunken act and very different to the multiple murders undertaken by others. He was sentenced to serve at least 20 years after pleading guilty and has now served 45, 'if' he no longer represents a risk (and taking the emotion of the crime out of the equation) I can't see why he shouldn't be released under strict terms like any other murderer.
Is that what you call it.
Anybody would think he smashed a window and threw a goldfish out.
So drunkenness excuses the frenzied and tortured murder of three toddlers.
You need to read up on what this savage did to those children.
The reference to being a drunk was to separate him from those who do equally horrific crimes due to a mental health disorder.
The judge who had access to all the information (not just what you or I have read) sentenced him to serve a minimum of 20 years which he's done, and then more than double that.
He's served his time, and now the experts are as confident as they can be that he's no longer a risk and can be released. I don't like it, but I like the prospect of a baying mob or the press being allowed to influence who stays in prison and who doesn't even less.
What would you do with him?
RemyMartin81D said:
La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Life is cheap in the UK, the system is broken and requires people with common sense to fix it
The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Such as? If it was that common and obvious I'm sure all the countries would like to hear it. The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Many more included in that list. Yes it's a cultural taboo but some people can never repay their debt to society, or be given a chance at redemption.
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 6th December 14:42
La Liga said:
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by most people.
That's a fairly recent development, though;https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822
otolith said:
La Liga said:
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by most people.
That's a fairly recent development, though;https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822
La Liga said:
RemyMartin81D said:
La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Life is cheap in the UK, the system is broken and requires people with common sense to fix it
The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Such as? If it was that common and obvious I'm sure all the countries would like to hear it. The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Many more included in that list. Yes it's a cultural taboo but some people can never repay their debt to society, or be given a chance at redemption.
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by most people.
ked up in the head person and wouldn't have done what he did if his mind was anything like on the levelIn summary - He and those like him that commit these crimes don't deserve life but do need a humane execution
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
RemyMartin81D said:
La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Life is cheap in the UK, the system is broken and requires people with common sense to fix it
The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Such as? If it was that common and obvious I'm sure all the countries would like to hear it. The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Many more included in that list. Yes it's a cultural taboo but some people can never repay their debt to society, or be given a chance at redemption.
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by most people.
ked up in the head person and wouldn't have done what he did if his mind was anything like on the levelIn summary - He and those like him that commit these crimes don't deserve life but do need a humane execution
Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
Volvo1956 said:
Penelope Stopit said:
Life is cheap in the UK, the system is broken and requires people with common sense to fix it
The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
Absolutely spot on. However finding the people with the common sense and big enough balls is the problem.The man should have been put to sleep in the same way as a very ill animal is, there is no doubt whatsoever that he commited these atrocious murders
The time has come for the UK and other countries to make big changes
I fear we've gone to far down the track where offenders are higher up the pecking order than victims and their families.
As you say we have no issue putting an ill or dangerous animal down humanely.
But an ill dangerous human being has to be nurtured and protected.
For whose benefit I'm not sure. Certainly not societies.
If Brexit can't be sorted and decisions made in three years then there's no chance of of any meaningful changes in the Justice System.
La Liga said:
ou can probably focus and manipulate the the question to get a majority i.e. this murderer did X, Y and Z, should they be put to death? But as above, public sentiment to the death penalty overall has diminished over time.
Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
I understand your above comment and do feel that the death sentence needs bringing back for people like this man, if there was a public vote about the sentencing of this man he would not be alive now...In my opinionDon't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
What was that line from The Spy That Came In From The Cold...: 'execution would be a merciful verdict'.
It's very easy to apply this with hindsight in specific rare cases. Applying it as a general law is fraught with difficulty, as I'm sure we all know, but also the unintended consequences of murderers having nothing to lose and taking as many as they can, them not confessing, unrecovered bodies etc.
I agree with the sentiment, and think there may be a case for 'life means life' such as here, but execution brings difficulties you can't reel back.
It's very easy to apply this with hindsight in specific rare cases. Applying it as a general law is fraught with difficulty, as I'm sure we all know, but also the unintended consequences of murderers having nothing to lose and taking as many as they can, them not confessing, unrecovered bodies etc.
I agree with the sentiment, and think there may be a case for 'life means life' such as here, but execution brings difficulties you can't reel back.
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
ou can probably focus and manipulate the the question to get a majority i.e. this murderer did X, Y and Z, should they be put to death? But as above, public sentiment to the death penalty overall has diminished over time.
Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
I understand your above comment and do feel that the death sentence needs bringing back for people like this man, if there was a public vote about the sentencing of this man he would not be alive now...In my opinion.Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
That's why the survey question is, "For some crimes, the death penalty is the most appropriate sentence (agree / disagree?)", and not, "Murderer X put three children on a spike, should he be put to death?"
You want people to be answering a question about the death penalty (as it'd have to be applied to more than one example), not answering a question about a specific murderer.
I agree with the alternative of having people remain in prison for their whole lives.
Volvo1956 said:
These bleeding heart.... left wing.... liberal...guardian reading half wits on the Parole Board are not accountable in any way.
Try and find the names of the individuals who authorised this... no chance.
If they're so confident why don't they have him live at their gaff.
Imagine the cost to the public purse of keeping this thing in society and it will continue on release.
He'll have every service available at his fingertips.
He'll be better treated than many pensioners.
Eventually set up in his own property all mod cons no charge.
The only saving grace is someone will see him off or his life will be made such a misery he will want to go back inside.
He should have swung by the neck forty years ago.
How can a piece of ste like that be considered as rehabilitated.
Agree with all you say. Surely this guy is a complete whacko nut job fruit loop of the highest order. There s no way anyone of a sane mind would be capable of this. How you could ever say hand on heart he's ok to go back outside is impossible. Words fail me that a parole board would take the risk. Surely Home Sec can overrule? Try and find the names of the individuals who authorised this... no chance.
If they're so confident why don't they have him live at their gaff.
Imagine the cost to the public purse of keeping this thing in society and it will continue on release.
He'll have every service available at his fingertips.
He'll be better treated than many pensioners.
Eventually set up in his own property all mod cons no charge.
The only saving grace is someone will see him off or his life will be made such a misery he will want to go back inside.
He should have swung by the neck forty years ago.
How can a piece of s
te like that be considered as rehabilitated.Some people are so naïve and weak they shouldn't be in the positions they are. I'm quite hardened to shocking stories and scenes but had to skip most of that. I think its so bad its beyond just being Evil, its completely beyond comprehension.
La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
ou can probably focus and manipulate the the question to get a majority i.e. this murderer did X, Y and Z, should they be put to death? But as above, public sentiment to the death penalty overall has diminished over time.
Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
I understand your above comment and do feel that the death sentence needs bringing back for people like this man, if there was a public vote about the sentencing of this man he would not be alive now...In my opinion.Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
That's why the survey question is, "For some crimes, the death penalty is the most appropriate sentence (agree / disagree?)", and not, "Murderer X put three children on a spike, should he be put to death?"
You want people to be answering a question about the death penalty (as it'd have to be applied to more than one example), not answering a question about a specific murderer.
I agree with the alternative of having people remain in prison for their whole lives.
Bearing in mind that I am aware of mistakes made many years ago when a death sentence existed in the UK and innocent people were hung or possibly innocent people were hung.
For whatever reason's (I've never read up on the reason's), the death sentence was abolished in the UK
If the death sentence wasn't abolished there would have been more innocent people affected by it and although the murderer that this topic relates to would have had his life terminated this would not help correct the mistakes made in the sentencing of other innocent's
Have I got it or am I well off the mark and it's all about the death sentence being inhumane?
If I have got it........How about having a death sentence open day once every five years or so when all those guilty sick people like the murderer being discussed here are given the death sentence and rapidly disposed of on the day?
I've said before that IMHO juries should be able to return two guilty verdicts in murder cases:
1. As existing - guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
2. Special verdict - guilty, with no doubt whatsover.
1. would restrict the Judge to non-capital sentencing as now.
2. would allow the Judge the discretion to impose capital punishment based on parameters (children, police, terrorist, etc...)
1. As existing - guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
2. Special verdict - guilty, with no doubt whatsover.
1. would restrict the Judge to non-capital sentencing as now.
2. would allow the Judge the discretion to impose capital punishment based on parameters (children, police, terrorist, etc...)
Penelope Stopit said:
Ok, you've certainly got me thinking deeper about this and I think I've got it
Bearing in mind that I am aware of mistakes made many years ago when a death sentence existed in the UK and innocent people were hung or possibly innocent people were hung.
For whatever reason's (I've never read up on the reason's), the death sentence was abolished in the UK
If the death sentence wasn't abolished there would have been more innocent people affected by it and although the murderer that this topic relates to would have had his life terminated this would not help correct the mistakes made in the sentencing of other innocent's
Have I got it or am I well off the mark and it's all about the death sentence being inhumane?
If I have got it........How about having a death sentence open day once every five years or so when all those guilty sick people like the murderer being discussed here are given the death sentence and rapidly disposed of on the day?
There's an argument that due to the softening of punishments like this the police now have to be more often armed. This results in situations where individual police men have to act as judge, jury and executioner in 0.6 seconds. Which is more likely to result in the death of an innocent person (especially given the improvements in evidence/DNA possible since we last sentenced people to death)?Bearing in mind that I am aware of mistakes made many years ago when a death sentence existed in the UK and innocent people were hung or possibly innocent people were hung.
For whatever reason's (I've never read up on the reason's), the death sentence was abolished in the UK
If the death sentence wasn't abolished there would have been more innocent people affected by it and although the murderer that this topic relates to would have had his life terminated this would not help correct the mistakes made in the sentencing of other innocent's
Have I got it or am I well off the mark and it's all about the death sentence being inhumane?
If I have got it........How about having a death sentence open day once every five years or so when all those guilty sick people like the murderer being discussed here are given the death sentence and rapidly disposed of on the day?
What softening of punishments? Even if that were the case I fail to see how it’d relate to the police using lethal force with firearms
Quite possibly. If you describe what this man did to people and then asked them if they wanted to see him be put to death, I imagine quite a few would say yes.
That's why the survey question is, "For some crimes, the death penalty is the most appropriate sentence (agree / disagree?)", and not, "Murderer X put three children on a spike, should he be put to death?"
You want people to be answering a question about the death penalty (as it'd have to be applied to more than one example), not answering a question about a specific murderer.
I agree with the alternative of having people remain in prison for their whole lives.Ok, you've certainly got me thinking deeper about this and I think I've got it
Bearing in mind that I am aware of mistakes made many years ago when a death sentence existed in the UK and innocent people were hung or possibly innocent people were hung.
For whatever reason's (I've never read up on the reason's), the death sentence was abolished in the UK
If the death sentence wasn't abolished there would have been more innocent people affected by it and although the murderer that this topic relates to would have had his life terminated this would not help correct the mistakes made in the sentencing of other innocent's
Have I got it or am I well off the mark and it's all about the death sentence being inhumane?
If I have got it........How about having a death sentence open day once every five years or so when all those guilty sick people like the murderer being discussed here are given the death sentence and rapidly disposed of on the day?There are a few factors people commonly cite. Miscarriages of justice being one. Ian Hislop does a good summary here (the woman he’s debating with reminds me of a certain poster on here): https://youtu.be/_DrsVhzbLzU
As he says, from a purely practical basis it’s not really viable. The US have executed plenty of innocent people.
There’s the moral / ethnical angle of whether the state should kill people. Two wrongs don’t make a right etc.
IIRC, juries are more reluctant to convict if they think they’re going to be responsible for killing someone.
We should do a battle royale instead. Then we’re not killing them, they’re killing one another
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
Penelope Stopit said:
La Liga said:
ou can probably focus and manipulate the the question to get a majority i.e. this murderer did X, Y and Z, should they be put to death? But as above, public sentiment to the death penalty overall has diminished over time.
Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
I understand your above comment and do feel that the death sentence needs bringing back for people like this man, if there was a public vote about the sentencing of this man he would not be alive now...In my opinion.Don't mistake your opinion for 'common sense'. Especially with a highly debatable and contentious subject.
That's why the survey question is, "For some crimes, the death penalty is the most appropriate sentence (agree / disagree?)", and not, "Murderer X put three children on a spike, should he be put to death?"
You want people to be answering a question about the death penalty (as it'd have to be applied to more than one example), not answering a question about a specific murderer.
I agree with the alternative of having people remain in prison for their whole lives.
Bearing in mind that I am aware of mistakes made many years ago when a death sentence existed in the UK and innocent people were hung or possibly innocent people were hung.
For whatever reason's (I've never read up on the reason's), the death sentence was abolished in the UK
If the death sentence wasn't abolished there would have been more innocent people affected by it and although the murderer that this topic relates to would have had his life terminated this would not help correct the mistakes made in the sentencing of other innocent's
Have I got it or am I well off the mark and it's all about the death sentence being inhumane?
If I have got it........How about having a death sentence open day once every five years or so when all those guilty sick people like the murderer being discussed here are given the death sentence and rapidly disposed of on the day?
As he says, from a purely practical basis it’s not really viable. The US have executed plenty of innocent people.
There’s the moral / ethnical angle of whether the state should kill people. Two wrongs don’t make a right etc.
IIRC, juries are more reluctant to convict if they think they’re going to be responsible for killing someone.
We should do a battle royale instead. Then we’re not killing them, they’re killing one another
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