Triple child killer cleared for release
Discussion
Piersman2 said:
I've said before that IMHO juries should be able to return two guilty verdicts in murder cases:
1. As existing - guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
2. Special verdict - guilty, with no doubt whatsover.
As I have said before, under the current system if you cannot give verdict two, you must acquit - unless the difference between 1 and 2 are unreasonable doubts. As you can never eliminate unreasonable doubts, you could never execute anyone.1. As existing - guilty beyond a reasonable doubt
2. Special verdict - guilty, with no doubt whatsover.
NoNeed said:
I would imagine he had already been given a lot of closely supervised freedoms to prepare him for life outside. People don't see the amount of work prison staff do to prepare people and minimise the risks. The parole board too would have to be very sure that the person will try to lead a normal life.
Oh well that should make everything rosy in the garden. Banged up for 45 years a few supervised then unsupervised visits and hes fit to integrate into society again even though he never fitted in before the offences.Hes a dangerous psychopath who will not change.
It will all go pear shaped one way or another and the idiots responsible for this decision will be nowhere to be seen.
La Liga said:
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
However when such questions are raised the majority are in favour. Now, which version of democracy do you ascribe to because for some majoritarianism would justify the imposition of this punishment.Jasandjules said:
La Liga said:
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
However when such questions are raised the majority are in favour. Now, which version of democracy do you ascribe to because for some majoritarianism would justify the imposition of this punishment.Wasn't there a link posted earlier that showed that that is actually not the case.
Poll from 2015, notable because it was the first time the question had been asked and a minority said they agreed with CP.
otolith said:
Interesting that you feel that everyone who is incapable of reoffending should be immediately released - please tell me that it's a joke?
(I like your game of misrepresenting other people's arguments, it's fun)
are you wired up correctly ? Youre the one who said you are not concerned with this savage reoffending because hes an old man.(I like your game of misrepresenting other people's arguments, it's fun)
So if you are 67 years of age you are an old man and not capable of reoffending.
Thats what youve said.
By implication on your argument theres no point in imprisoning anyone above 67 because they wont reoffend.
You do realise what your saying do you.
Yours is the joke .. i didnt mention incapable of reoffending.. you did... one they reach 67 because they are an old man.
I merely extracted the urine out of yoor nonsense statement and release everyone above 67 because you say they are old and incapable of reoffending.
Do you get iit now? have you actually read the nonsense youve put?
Your trying to attribute your crazy idea to me.
JUST TO REPEAT BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LITERACY. YOU SAID YOURE NOT CONCERNED WITH THIS INDIVIDUALS RISK OF OFFENDING BECAUSE OF HIS AGE BEING 67AND THAT MAKES HIM AN OLD MAN!!!!!!!
Are you drunk or on something?
Brooking10 said:
Jasandjules said:
La Liga said:
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
However when such questions are raised the majority are in favour. Now, which version of democracy do you ascribe to because for some majoritarianism would justify the imposition of this punishment.Wasn't there a link posted earlier that showed that that is actually not the case.
Poll from 2015, notable because it was the first time the question had been asked and a minority said they agreed with CP.
Think it was the year before 2014 because it was a time mark, 50 yrs on from the last UK hanging.
Most people were against the death penalty after the last hanging, and I remember it, and it did keep decreasing for good reason.
However, there is one thing that will make people revert to the old way and that is stories like this b
d being released. Keep it up do-gooders and you might get back what you don't want.
La Liga said:
uch as? If it was that common and obvious I'm sure all the countries would like to hear it.
Not you again. Have you not read what he/she posted.Such as? You say.
Such as putting to sleep sick savage psychopaths such as this one like you would a sick dangerous animal.
Thats for starters what else do you need to know.
Have you actually read what the poster put and processed it.
With your track record you shouldnt need to ask inane questions.
The point thats being made is perfectly clear. As usual you dont like what you read so spin off at a tangent.
Here you are, thought my memory wasn't that bad.
Wonder if the poll will decrease after this vile excuse for a human being is released?
That's assuming the parole board doesn't change its mind and another have to resign.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Wonder if the poll will decrease after this vile excuse for a human being is released?
That's assuming the parole board doesn't change its mind and another have to resign.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
RemyMartin81D said:
Execution in extreme and rare cases where the admission of guilt is beyond doubt. For example, for example Myra Hindley, Ian Brady, Shipman, Amelia Dyer and and this monster should have been executed.
Many more included in that list. Yes it's a cultural taboo but some people can never repay their debt to society, or be given a chance at redemption.
Well said RemyMartin1D.Many more included in that list. Yes it's a cultural taboo but some people can never repay their debt to society, or be given a chance at redemption.
However La Liga our resident law enforcement guru wont like extreme measures like that.
He prefers the tea and sympathy approach.
ie. Dont worry we can rehabilitate you at whatever cost and get you back into society... as long as your not in my neighborhood.
If you do reoffend as many do thats fine at least we tried and its just unfortunate for the victim and family.
dandarez said:
Here you are, thought my memory wasn't that bad.
Wonder if the poll will decrease after this vile excuse for a human being is released?
That's assuming the parole board doesn't change its mind and another have to resign.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Your memory is superWonder if the poll will decrease after this vile excuse for a human being is released?
That's assuming the parole board doesn't change its mind and another have to resign.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-repo...
Your ability to follow the thread less so
This from a few hours and just a handful of posts ago.
2015 data
Support for death penalty drops below 50% for the first time
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822
The Surveyor said:
I've read it and it's horrific.
The reference to being a drunk was to separate him from those who do equally horrific crimes due to a mental health disorder.
The judge who had access to all the information (not just what you or I have read) sentenced him to serve a minimum of 20 years which he's done, and then more than double that.
He's served his time, and now the experts are as confident as they can be that he's no longer a risk and can be released. I don't like it, but I like the prospect of a baying mob or the press being allowed to influence who stays in prison and who doesn't even less.
What would you do with him?
Id keep him inside. He cant possibly integrate in society . Once his location is discovered he will probably be despatched. If not his life will be made hell windows bricked etc etc.The reference to being a drunk was to separate him from those who do equally horrific crimes due to a mental health disorder.
The judge who had access to all the information (not just what you or I have read) sentenced him to serve a minimum of 20 years which he's done, and then more than double that.
He's served his time, and now the experts are as confident as they can be that he's no longer a risk and can be released. I don't like it, but I like the prospect of a baying mob or the press being allowed to influence who stays in prison and who doesn't even less.
What would you do with him?
You can relocate him as many times as you wish but he will be found.
So you think drink was involved was it and being under the influence dismisses you from any form of mental illness .
A single barbaric drunken incident you described it as.
Do you still stand by that.
Im sure the mother of these three children will be in full agreement.
There are some crimes so horrific you can never repay your debt.
La Liga said:
ommon sense requires a belief to be held by nearly all people. For example, most people believe you shouldn't put your hand in fire.
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
Edited by La Liga on Thursday 6th December 14:42
and your evidence for that pearl of wisdom is???
Dont tell me you had a referendum.
Hayek said:
La Liga said:
There’s the moral / ethnical angle of whether the state should kill people.
The/our state uses lethal force all the time.dandarez said:
However, there is one thing that will make people revert to the old way and that is stories like this bd being released.
Keep it up do-gooders and you might get back what you don't want.
Unlikely. Lots of murderers have been released. This one is just more media-worthy (understandably so). d being released. Keep it up do-gooders and you might get back what you don't want.
Jasandjules said:
La Liga said:
The death penalty is definitely not a belief held by nearly all people.
However when such questions are raised the majority are in favour. Now, which version of democracy do you ascribe to because for some majoritarianism would justify the imposition of this punishment.Regardless, my point was there certainly isn’t sufficient support to class it as “common sense”.
Volvo1956 said:
otolith said:
Interesting that you feel that everyone who is incapable of reoffending should be immediately released - please tell me that it's a joke?
(I like your game of misrepresenting other people's arguments, it's fun)
are you wired up correctly ? Youre the one who said you are not concerned with this savage reoffending because hes an old man.(I like your game of misrepresenting other people's arguments, it's fun)
So if you are 67 years of age you are an old man and not capable of reoffending.
Thats what youve said.
By implication on your argument theres no point in imprisoning anyone above 67 because they wont reoffend.
You do realise what your saying do you.
Yours is the joke .. i didnt mention incapable of reoffending.. you did... one they reach 67 because they are an old man.
I merely extracted the urine out of yoor nonsense statement and release everyone above 67 because you say they are old and incapable of reoffending.
Do you get iit now? have you actually read the nonsense youve put?
Your trying to attribute your crazy idea to me.
JUST TO REPEAT BECAUSE I THINK YOU HAVE PROBLEMS WITH LITERACY. YOU SAID YOURE NOT CONCERNED WITH THIS INDIVIDUALS RISK OF OFFENDING BECAUSE OF HIS AGE BEING 67AND THAT MAKES HIM AN OLD MAN!!!!!!!
Are you drunk or on something?
I said that my concern with releasing him was not him reoffending - he's a 67 year old man who would be out on licence, I think the risks of him getting drunk and unleashing psychotic violence on someone like he did when he was 22 years old are remote. If he's drinking heavily, he will end up back inside. He won't have access to vulnerable people. If he starts trouble with someone who isn't vulnerable, he'll get his scrawny old neck broken. I think it is quite likely that he poses very little threat.
I then explained that I thought that he should never be released.
HE SHOULD NEVER BE RELEASED (in case you missed it again)
From which you seemed to deduce that I wanted him to be released.
I'm not sure whether your problem is in your comprehension, your eyesight, or perhaps your spittle-flecked rage is foaming up your spectacles?
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