The death of the high street.
Discussion
21TonyK said:
I forsee town centres becoming "cultural entertainment centres", lots of food, arts, entertainment etc Shops will simply be showrooms for products you need or want to physically see before you order online from Amazon, Argos, AO etc
This is called Showrooming and it absolutely f##ks retailers off. Many Consumers are so rude they are quite blatant about picking products up, trying them on for example and then google shopping the price in store before walking out. These consumers then complain that the shops are poorly stocked....no s
t Sherlock. Shops will tighten their ranges to just the core sellers. This is bad for everyone and only accelerates the decline when Shoppers complain that they cant find anything.The Government need to bring in an online turnover tax. This will even up eth game and enable stores to have some faith that they are playing a fair game. Many of the online purchases are bought overseas and benefit the UK not one jot. Entrepreneurial business are closing to be replaced by warehouse jobs or delivery jobs and the culture of our once thriving town centres is lost. its more than just pure economics...there is a much bigger picture
I compared and contrasted Croydon and Sutton recently. Maybe 4 miles apart
Croydon is a long way from what it has been, but it's still busy and there's still choice.
Sutton is dead. Lots of people, but very few shops worth visiting. It kind of feels like a discount version of Croydon. The shops are smaller, less well stocked. The service in the shops feels crapper. The local residents are uglier
I'm not sure I agree with the point above about Towns becoming entertainment destinations. Croydon has lost a lot of its Bars and Clubs over the last few years, but the ones remaining have shifted South out of the main shopping areas.
Sutton has lost the majority of them! I don't even know if theres 2 nice bars in Sutton appropriate for over 30s.
I actually warmed to him during that select committee hearing
On a related note. More retailers need to advertise in store they will price match. Currys will price match Amazon if asked. Which would stop them losing sales
Croydon is a long way from what it has been, but it's still busy and there's still choice.
Sutton is dead. Lots of people, but very few shops worth visiting. It kind of feels like a discount version of Croydon. The shops are smaller, less well stocked. The service in the shops feels crapper. The local residents are uglier
I'm not sure I agree with the point above about Towns becoming entertainment destinations. Croydon has lost a lot of its Bars and Clubs over the last few years, but the ones remaining have shifted South out of the main shopping areas.
Sutton has lost the majority of them! I don't even know if theres 2 nice bars in Sutton appropriate for over 30s.
Crippo said:
The Government need to bring in an online turnover tax.
That was Mike Ashleys idea the other day.I actually warmed to him during that select committee hearing
On a related note. More retailers need to advertise in store they will price match. Currys will price match Amazon if asked. Which would stop them losing sales
Edited by Rich_W on Thursday 6th December 23:12
In sheffield city centre they used to have a council car park that was worth the money, the spaces were large so parking wasn't an issue.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3786587,-1.47383...
I went there recently and they redrew the lines and made the spaces tiny meaning you couldnt park 3 range rover sized cars next to each other.
i won't be going back there again.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3786587,-1.47383...
I went there recently and they redrew the lines and made the spaces tiny meaning you couldnt park 3 range rover sized cars next to each other.
i won't be going back there again.
Crippo said:
The Government need to bring in an online turnover tax. This will even up eth game and enable stores to have some faith that they are playing a fair game.
That would be like trying to hold back the sea by shouting at it. The high street as we once knew it is unequivocally on its way out. The future high street will have more services, more food and more residents. I reckon it'll probably be a more cheerful place overall for more of the day. Most turn into creepy, dusty wastelands once half five is gone.
I went shopping in Guildford yesterday and came home with nothing except a few ideas for gifts to order online. I went into Kingston today and came home with two candles, a bottle of shampoo, a blouse and skirt for myself and a few more gift ideas. All in all it was hardly worth the parking charges. My daughter couldn't get the size in a jacket she wanted in store so ordered it online while standing at the till. I managed to spend quite a lot in two trips (lunch for two and parking) but still no Xmas presents.
However, on checking prices on Amazon, I see that a few books I'm looking to get are the same price as in WH Smith. Perhaps Smiths have started price matching themselves. It's not a store I usually bother with.
The High Street seems to be good for browsing, but goodness knows how they cover their overheads in Kingston and Guildford.
However, on checking prices on Amazon, I see that a few books I'm looking to get are the same price as in WH Smith. Perhaps Smiths have started price matching themselves. It's not a store I usually bother with.
The High Street seems to be good for browsing, but goodness knows how they cover their overheads in Kingston and Guildford.
Crippo said:
This is called Showrooming and it absolutely f##ks retailers off.
I mean I can actually see most traditional high street shops going completely replaced by showrooms for online retailers.Argos is becoming a good example. Online presence, few "shops" and lots of collections points.
I avoid town like a fresh dog turd on cut grass.
Takes ages to get there with all the roadworks and traffic
Parking is expensive and parking dents are a risk from the inevitable Citroen Xsara/Vauxhall Zafira kid laden stboxes that park on the slant.
Shops are few and far between and often crap with out of stock items
Lots of council types sitting around eating pasties and farting whilst wearing their superdry jackets
Takes ages to get there with all the roadworks and traffic
Parking is expensive and parking dents are a risk from the inevitable Citroen Xsara/Vauxhall Zafira kid laden s
tboxes that park on the slant.Shops are few and far between and often crap with out of stock items
Lots of council types sitting around eating pasties and farting whilst wearing their superdry jackets
jamoor said:
In sheffield city centre they used to have a council car park that was worth the money, the spaces were large so parking wasn't an issue.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3786587,-1.47383...
I went there recently and they redrew the lines and made the spaces tiny meaning you couldnt park 3 range rover sized cars next to each other.
i won't be going back there again.
Parking is the least of your worries in Sheffield. Just park in John Lewis car park like everyone else does. It's the only half decent shop in the city centre anyway. As a place to shop, Sheffield is absolutely dreadful. Most people who buy in the shops go to Meadowhell. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.3786587,-1.47383...
I went there recently and they redrew the lines and made the spaces tiny meaning you couldnt park 3 range rover sized cars next to each other.
i won't be going back there again.
As for cultural/evening attractions; I wouldn't even consider going out for an evening in the centre these days. Why would anyone go to the chain pub s
tholes on West St, or Division St when you could go to Kelham/Neepsend, Broomhill, Sharrow Vale, Abbeydale etc.?bloomen said:
Crippo said:
The Government need to bring in an online turnover tax. This will even up eth game and enable stores to have some faith that they are playing a fair game.
That would be like trying to hold back the sea by shouting at it. The high street as we once knew it is unequivocally on its way out. The future high street will have more services, more food and more residents. I reckon it'll probably be a more cheerful place overall for more of the day. Most turn into creepy, dusty wastelands once half five is gone.
Two problems with the idea of high streets becoming cultural and cafe bar beacons for leisure
1. Most restaurants chains are struggling and quite a few indies will go out of business not long after opening, such are the challenges in that sector. Same with coffee shops. And there are only so many starbucks a high street can support. Usual economic factors will turn the high street back into what we already have.
2. Feasiability. Councils will be slow, if not fail altogether, to give it the necessary free parking and ease of accessibility. People will not spend 4 hours having a wonder and a coffee whilst watching the clock due to their pay and display. In fact it will likely be pushed into a pedestrian-only set up and a park and ride. It just wont take off.
Most out-of-town malls have cinemas and restaurants anyway so the high street would still be competing with that.
Finally - as people here often note - the leisurely wonder needs to include a bit of everything... a coffee, some shopping, a meal and a cinema. If you take away the shopping element then you basically have just a meal and a cinema which can be had anywhere, anytime, and is something people do sporadically
1. Most restaurants chains are struggling and quite a few indies will go out of business not long after opening, such are the challenges in that sector. Same with coffee shops. And there are only so many starbucks a high street can support. Usual economic factors will turn the high street back into what we already have.
2. Feasiability. Councils will be slow, if not fail altogether, to give it the necessary free parking and ease of accessibility. People will not spend 4 hours having a wonder and a coffee whilst watching the clock due to their pay and display. In fact it will likely be pushed into a pedestrian-only set up and a park and ride. It just wont take off.
Most out-of-town malls have cinemas and restaurants anyway so the high street would still be competing with that.
Finally - as people here often note - the leisurely wonder needs to include a bit of everything... a coffee, some shopping, a meal and a cinema. If you take away the shopping element then you basically have just a meal and a cinema which can be had anywhere, anytime, and is something people do sporadically
PurpleMoonlight said:
It's not all joy online though.
I have been sent the wrong item. Postage back is free, but I still have to get it to the post office which involves the cost of driving to town and parking.
Agreed. Online delivery round here is still crap from any supplier who doesn't use DPD, and DPD seems increasingly rare.I have been sent the wrong item. Postage back is free, but I still have to get it to the post office which involves the cost of driving to town and parking.
menousername said:
2. Feasiability. Councils will be slow, if not fail altogether, to give it the necessary free parking and ease of accessibility.
Very true. The rot started locally when the local council put in a tram system and started making it more difficult for car owners to access the city. So they are shipping in those with little money, whilst alienating those who have more.Wacky Racer said:
Depends on the part of the country...
There are very few empty units in my local town Bury, seems to be doing nicely with a thriving market.
Nearby Rochdale and Bolton has gone to the dogs.
I disagree; I split any shopping between Rochdale and Bury; I live near Rochdale and spent my youth there or in Bury (where I went to school). Back in the '80s it was the other way round; Rochdale with the bustling centre. Bury appears to now be getting quieter and there are more empty shops. Rochdale was simply waaaay ahead of the high street death curve - practically communist council, stratospheric business rates (my dad was the local vet and I remember his single biggest bugbear being the rates), expensive parking etc. I really thought the place was done for.There are very few empty units in my local town Bury, seems to be doing nicely with a thriving market.
Nearby Rochdale and Bolton has gone to the dogs.
Parking has been free for a good few years now (bit too late to save the high street, but it's unusual these days), and someone with a sensible head on their shoulders has made some great changes; the town centre looks stunning now (shame about the area that rings it though) and puts most places to shame. Super job. They've also realised that shopping is dead and are redeveloping it to cater for leisure (cinemas, bars, restaurants etc). A mate of mine has just opened a bar in the town centre and it's a credit to the place, which is definitely a good night out now. A lot of other towns are going to have to make this adjustment or die. I've a great deal of civic pride and it's good to see them doing something right for once - although I'm sure lots of people who live in some crowded southern hell-hole will sneer at the place.
It Varys, go to Swansea city centre and it’s dead, full of empty shops and homeless people. But go to the out of town retail parks with free parking and it’s heaving all the time. Very few empty units too
You can’t park easily or for free in Swansea city
Go to Cwmbran, where they have free parking, a bus station directly in the town centre and the place is buzzing, constantly busy and at a push 5 empty shop units. Even the house of Fraser is staying open.
People won’t go to the town where you can’t park when retail parks offer it easily.
It’s not a death of the high street it’s yhe death of outdated shops you no longer need, or have no USP. And it’s council incompetence and a hatred for the car pushing people away because they can’t easily access
I mean who really is going to drive to town to pay to park just to pick up something they can get online? Park for free and people will browse a little longer and buy more than what they came for
You can’t park easily or for free in Swansea city
Go to Cwmbran, where they have free parking, a bus station directly in the town centre and the place is buzzing, constantly busy and at a push 5 empty shop units. Even the house of Fraser is staying open.
People won’t go to the town where you can’t park when retail parks offer it easily.
It’s not a death of the high street it’s yhe death of outdated shops you no longer need, or have no USP. And it’s council incompetence and a hatred for the car pushing people away because they can’t easily access
I mean who really is going to drive to town to pay to park just to pick up something they can get online? Park for free and people will browse a little longer and buy more than what they came for
steveo3002 said:
why do all the shops , banks , post office pander to the dole scroungers that want to wander around all day , then come 6 oclcok when workers finish and have some free time theyre all closed?
and yeah make it awkward for cars to travel into town then wonder why less folk bother
Who would staff these shops if all the workers had finished work?and yeah make it awkward for cars to travel into town then wonder why less folk bother
Banks are mainly open because of business customers aren't they? They usually get business done during business hours.
WonkeyDonkey said:
steveo3002 said:
why do all the shops , banks , post office pander to the dole scroungers that want to wander around all day , then come 6 oclcok when workers finish and have some free time theyre all closed?
and yeah make it awkward for cars to travel into town then wonder why less folk bother
Who would staff these shops if all the workers had finished work?and yeah make it awkward for cars to travel into town then wonder why less folk bother
Banks are mainly open because of business customers aren't they? They usually get business done during business hours.
Not seeing this in Norwich. Carparks are all full by 11 AM on Saturday & Sunday. Place is heaving. The independent coffee/food places seem to do well, its the chains that are suffering so far as I can tell.
The problem I have is too many people seem to take their children out shopping with them, and then put no effort in to control them. It makes for a horrible shopping experience.
The problem I have is too many people seem to take their children out shopping with them, and then put no effort in to control them. It makes for a horrible shopping experience.
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