The death of the high street.
Discussion
Sunday trading laws aren't such a bad idea actually.
At the beginning of the century I moved to German for a few years with work. They still have Sunday trading laws. At first it was a bit of a shock not being able to shop on Sundays, however after a while I began to appreciate it. You couldn't go shopping on a Sunday and that was that. No more thinking "got to nip into town/down Homebase/into Tescos before it shuts" during Sunday. The day was spent mostly mountain biking and/or recovering from Saturday night.
It was actually appreciably more relaxing than having the perceived need to get to the shops hanging over you head all day whilst doing something else you should be enjoying.
At the beginning of the century I moved to German for a few years with work. They still have Sunday trading laws. At first it was a bit of a shock not being able to shop on Sundays, however after a while I began to appreciate it. You couldn't go shopping on a Sunday and that was that. No more thinking "got to nip into town/down Homebase/into Tescos before it shuts" during Sunday. The day was spent mostly mountain biking and/or recovering from Saturday night.
It was actually appreciably more relaxing than having the perceived need to get to the shops hanging over you head all day whilst doing something else you should be enjoying.
21TonyK said:
I have read numerous reports and listened to a variety of people speaking about the "high street".
I forsee town centres becoming "cultural entertainment centres", lots of food, arts, entertainment etc Shops will simply be showrooms for products you need or want to physically see before you order online from Amazon, Argos, AO etc
A few artisanal producers selling high end fresh produce, cafes, restaurants and showrooms.
Thats it, personally I don't see it as a bad thing. Lots of jobs to move around but once thats done it seems a logical development and progression.
I couldn't disagree more. I also disagree with the notion of them being turned into residential areas as well fwiw.I forsee town centres becoming "cultural entertainment centres", lots of food, arts, entertainment etc Shops will simply be showrooms for products you need or want to physically see before you order online from Amazon, Argos, AO etc
A few artisanal producers selling high end fresh produce, cafes, restaurants and showrooms.
Thats it, personally I don't see it as a bad thing. Lots of jobs to move around but once thats done it seems a logical development and progression.
You can change the contents of town centres as much as you like, but the underlying issues will still remain; namely the utter utter ball-ache of actually getting to them in your car and the fact that the LA will charge you a small fortune for parking your car for a couple of hours.
The entertainment, food, arts and shops are (were) already there in every town centre. No-one used them because of the above 2 issues. Rearranging the deckchairs isn't going to change that and especially not when the biggest attraction ie. the shops themselves, are all rapidly closing their doors meaning no reason to come to town again. No-one goes into town just for a coffee and a bite to eat.
The town centre night life is also dead compared to how it was a couple of decades ago and that has its own story to tell, but in short it's down to the smoking ban, the availability of cheap supermarket booze vs expensive booze in pubs and clubs, increased transport costs (bus into town, taxi home) and also the shift in lifestyle with the younger generation who don't have any real life friends to go out socialising with as the only people they know are 4000 miles away on the other end of a Minecraft Discord channel. The younger generation as a whole don't 'do' nightclubbing and boozing out in town on a weekend like previous generations did.
As for the idea of the turning town centres into residential property.. Where are all these people going to park their cars? Everyone has at least one car these days and they need somewhere to park them. Are you suggesting that the people who will live in this new town centre residential property utopia won't have cars so it won't be a problem? I hope not as that would be quite deluded and shortsighted. Residential property closely bordering town centres already exists in most towns, but that close proximity for the residents to be able to walk into town and do their shopping with ease hasn't done anything to save the town centres from becoming wastelands, has it? So why do you think that would change if they converted existing retail property to residential?
jamoor said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Slightly off topic, (because I do think parking access to high streets is a key issue here) but charging high prices for parking to visit patients in hospitals is disgraceful.
No one wants to go to hospitals either as a patient, or someone visiting a patient, and yet exorbitant fees are charged. making visiting a hospital an even worse experience than it already might be.
At least visiting a high street should be a pleasurable experience, so why don't local authorities make a start on re generating the high street by first doing something to aid, getting in and parking there? Some towns have done this, in one they let the local school playground be used as a free car park at weekends, and evenings, and that particular high street is consequents bustling for much of the time. Some LA`s are too thick for their own good.
Theres a good chance that if you're going to hospital as a patient, you can't/wont take public transport either.No one wants to go to hospitals either as a patient, or someone visiting a patient, and yet exorbitant fees are charged. making visiting a hospital an even worse experience than it already might be.
At least visiting a high street should be a pleasurable experience, so why don't local authorities make a start on re generating the high street by first doing something to aid, getting in and parking there? Some towns have done this, in one they let the local school playground be used as a free car park at weekends, and evenings, and that particular high street is consequents bustling for much of the time. Some LA`s are too thick for their own good.
There's a, lot more day to day appointments than ambulance admissions, I'm sure.
KrissKross said:
Haters gonna hate, but he speaks a lot of sense imo. The only thing I disagree with him on is the 20% online tax. It would need to be a lot higher than that for me to haul my arse out of my armchair, drive into town, pay to park and buy the product in person. 20% won't do anything to change current buying habits imo.Another question I have is why does the High Street "need saving" specifically? For the most part the internet fulfils most folks' needs. The common argument for why the High Street needs saving seems to be because it's always been there and so should continue to do so which isn't a particularly good argument.
Why should people be charged 20% extra just to put money in the pockets of someone like Ashley? And to make up for the mistakes others make but don’t want to suffer for. Why should the same old places retailing the same old tat always have to be a sure fire goldmine and why should we have to pay to make it so?
Local Authorities have been far too greedy and lazy, hammering retailers and drivers but giving very little back and pouring the taxes they raise into their idiotic socialist schemes. That’s not a surprise to anyone. They should be working far more seriously with the retailers and making it easier and more pleasant for customers to get there, working out what they can offer which is different and better than other possible places, and improving the environment and experience of people who do get there. It has always been obvious that towns are really running shopping centres, and shopping centres are really running towns, and if each would think more along these lines they would both get on better. In competition some will win and some will fail, that’s life.
Not every town centre or shopping centre is dead. I was in the Metro Centre Gateshead last week and it was heaving. There are destination centres, like House of Bruar on the A9 that you can hardly fight your way into. I was in Dublin recently and it has a shopping area about three times the size of Glasgow and the whole area was busy. Retail in airports is busy but also imho heading for trouble through taking their victims er customers for granted. Transport intersections, particularly large railway stations, are busy. That’s because there is passing trade, and they sell what their customers want. So it can be done, even in the face of online retailing, which frankly was an inevitability. Why should we be surprised that a row of chain shops in a down at heel town centre selling the same old rubbish as one ten miles away are struggling? The real surprise is how they lasted so long.
Retail centres, including towns, which place themselves where there are customers, or make themselves attractive destinations, who offer a pleasant and inviting environment, who offer something different and of quality, who provide real service instead of self service clip joints, and who offer value for money rather than assuming that the sheep will always turn up to be sheared, are successful. Is that rocket science?
Local Authorities have been far too greedy and lazy, hammering retailers and drivers but giving very little back and pouring the taxes they raise into their idiotic socialist schemes. That’s not a surprise to anyone. They should be working far more seriously with the retailers and making it easier and more pleasant for customers to get there, working out what they can offer which is different and better than other possible places, and improving the environment and experience of people who do get there. It has always been obvious that towns are really running shopping centres, and shopping centres are really running towns, and if each would think more along these lines they would both get on better. In competition some will win and some will fail, that’s life.
Not every town centre or shopping centre is dead. I was in the Metro Centre Gateshead last week and it was heaving. There are destination centres, like House of Bruar on the A9 that you can hardly fight your way into. I was in Dublin recently and it has a shopping area about three times the size of Glasgow and the whole area was busy. Retail in airports is busy but also imho heading for trouble through taking their victims er customers for granted. Transport intersections, particularly large railway stations, are busy. That’s because there is passing trade, and they sell what their customers want. So it can be done, even in the face of online retailing, which frankly was an inevitability. Why should we be surprised that a row of chain shops in a down at heel town centre selling the same old rubbish as one ten miles away are struggling? The real surprise is how they lasted so long.
Retail centres, including towns, which place themselves where there are customers, or make themselves attractive destinations, who offer a pleasant and inviting environment, who offer something different and of quality, who provide real service instead of self service clip joints, and who offer value for money rather than assuming that the sheep will always turn up to be sheared, are successful. Is that rocket science?
gizlaroc said:
Johnnytheboy said:
I asked a contact in the commercial property business why, if property was empty for a long time, they didn't lower the rent? He replied "ah but that would lower the rentable value, so we wouldn't be able to borrow so much money against it to invest in other things". No, I don't get that either.
This is a massive problem. Property is often better sat on your books empty and overvalued than it is rented out for the true value. Rent out all the property you have based on your last valuation rather than the true value and suddenly you might find yourself in a bit of a pickle.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
How many towns across the UK do you think have enough offices near them to justify having coffee shops and restaurants? There is not that many, only the major cities tend to have this, most towns and city centres would be empty if the shops disappeared.
Heck if I could get her to get my parcels from the local post office (20 minute min queue to pick up Signed for in December) I'd pay double what I pay for lunch!!!
StanleyT said:
Our Superior Sandwiches (transit that turns up outside the office 5 times a day) lady will take your amazon code off you and call you on one of her later deliveries when she has picked it up from the locker 1/2 mile away, and only then you pay for your lunch etc that you had picked up off Julie earlier...and she doesn't charge a single penny extra for this!!!! She does get a heck of a lot of tips though for doing so, even from the Contactless nonpaying Millenians, Julie reckons she get £20-£40 day for the one mile run from our office to the Amazon locker and it takes her 15 minutes - and she is fastidious with ID and paperwork so I'm sure no one can turn her over.
Heck if I could get her to get my parcels from the local post office (20 minute min queue to pick up Signed for in December) I'd pay double what I pay for lunch!!!
Can;t they deliver the parcels to work and Julie the hassle?Heck if I could get her to get my parcels from the local post office (20 minute min queue to pick up Signed for in December) I'd pay double what I pay for lunch!!!
saaby93 said:
More here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d24Tuc7X58
longer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn3p7by5F0I
He needs to do fewer of these. He doesn't know how to come across well.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5d24Tuc7X58
longer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn3p7by5F0I
See I'm weird. I honestly hate internet shopping. If I've been looking at buying something I want it now. I don't want to have to wait for the always hopeless courier to lie about where it is, make sure someone is home etc etc.
I like to go into town, have a coffee, bit of people watching, go into a shop see the item I want, take it home with me.
But I realise I'm probably unusual in this sense. Our city has good car parking so the car isn't at too much risk too which is nice!
I like to go into town, have a coffee, bit of people watching, go into a shop see the item I want, take it home with me.
But I realise I'm probably unusual in this sense. Our city has good car parking so the car isn't at too much risk too which is nice!
cardigankid said:
Why should people be charged 20% extra just to put money in the pockets of someone like Ashley?
That is not how it works. The internet sales tax is designed to put money back into the tax take for the UK, it is designed to give back some of the lost revenue they are getting from online traders who are using cheap warehouses and offices out of town and not giving much back in the way of rates etc.
People like Amazon are paying around 1% tax in total, in fact last year they only paid £15m on £19.5b worth of turnover, considering our VAT rate is 20% even if they didn't have to pay any corporation tax that is not only a lot of lost revenue for the UK but more importantly it also gives them a seriously unfair advantage with just about everyone else who retails in the UK.
A flat 20% on all turnover would have given £3.8b.
So £15,000,000 vs £3800,000,000 is massive.
BTW, that £15m was 2016, they only paid £4.6m in 2017.
£15,000,000 a year is nice, however, £15,000,000 every single week day of the year, is far more realistic. That is the reality, they could/should be paying in 250x more.
I reckon I could get 10 of my customers together combined have paid more than Amazon, and they are guys that run aggregate firms, construction companies, and they are turning over 100th of what Amazon is doing.
Amazon argue that they make little profit on a huge turnover.
The problem with that is one of morals, should a company be allowed to run a company making little profit but taking such a huge share of the market?
Do we want to live in a society where the largest employment segment is put at risk?
Amazon are pumping any potential profits back into systems that can make them more profit, but that is at the expense of employing people, automation is almost here, that is their long term goal.
The correct question to answer, for now, is a simple one...
"Should small companies be subsidising the largest corporations on the planet?"
That is the reality of it.
It would be good if something was done to help proper small independent shops.
To get people back to the high street shops have to do more than just just sell the same things we can buy online , traders passionate about the items there selling so when the buyer comes out of the shop they feel they've had a good conversation and hopefully return.
To get people back to the high street shops have to do more than just just sell the same things we can buy online , traders passionate about the items there selling so when the buyer comes out of the shop they feel they've had a good conversation and hopefully return.
So said:
saaby93 said:
He needs to do fewer of these. He doesn't know how to come across well.KrissKross said:
lotusmad2001 said:
See I'm weird. I honestly hate internet shopping. If I've been looking at buying something I want it now. I don't want to have to wait for the always hopeless courier to lie about where it is, make sure someone is home etc etc.
I'm not fond of it but it gets the job done. I do always make sure I check the likelihood of something I'm after being physically available if I'm heading somewhere. I've found stuff for less offline quite often. If it's a similar price or slightly more I'll ignore online and get that.
Choice is obviously the biggie. Most of my purchases are unspeakably obscure. If a shop stocked them I'd regard them as weirdos.
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