tube drivers on 100k+

[Wobbegong]

nikaiyo2 said:

I would not want a pilot flying because of the money at all, it is a very poor motivator, in my experience those who love flying make the best pilots and would do it for a lot less than they are paid.

Don’t worry, most fly for the selfie opportunities on Instagram

#bestoffice
#femalepilot

[valiant]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Bus Drivers have to deal directly with the public navigate all sorts of traffic hazards and earn about 30% of this and I think they have the more difficult job

You're comparing oranges with apples.

Apart from having wheels and carrying passengers the jobs are not really comparable.

Might as well compare it to a pilot or a ship's captain for all the similarity there is.

[anonymous-user]

valiant said:

You work 20-25 hrs overtime unpaid every week?

Mate, unless you own the business or are on some serious bonus scheme, you're been taken for a mug.

Ever thought of joining a union?

Exactly.

[johnxjsc1985]

valiant said:

You're comparing oranges with apples.

Apart from having wheels and carrying passengers the jobs are not really comparable.

Might as well compare it to a pilot or a ship's captain for all the similarity there is.

when did you last drive a bus or get on board one . They are infinity more difficult to drive and get around a city on time picking up passengers and taking fares all the time having to deal with other road users. They arent comparable because the poor bus driver has a much more difficult job. I have never seen such a bizarre response to a post. One Driver has a highly regulated controlled environment with no other traffic to negotiate the other a bus driver has to negotiate many different routes and levels of traffic.

[chunder27]

Simple fact is they ahve one of the most powerful unions in the game and London at their feet.

Imagine what nurses, plod, teachers would be paid if they could bring the financial and political centre of Britain to its feet with a few days of strike action.

Ruthless, cowardly, feckless tossers the lot of them.

Nothing hard about the job, no skill involved, waiting list as long as your arm.

in this day and age, its absurd, put simply.

[jakesmith]

J4CKO said:

Why shouldnt people earn decent money ?

The Tube system is massively busy and I expect it makes money, plenty of people in London making six figures plus into the millions ?

Its a responsible job, I cant imagine its that hard if the training is sixteen weeks but with responsibility comes a decent wage, I am sure given half a chance some private company would take over and pay 18k per year and just give the job to anyone, then wonder why they dont turn in or dont give a st.

Free markets determine remuneration by how difficult it is to replace people

Closed shop industries that use strikes to artificially inflate salaries, and use protectionist strategies to prevent available and competent labour moving into the company, forces up the prices for consumers and creates an artificially high level of remuneration

People should be paid according to the skill, talent, responsibility they have and employ in their role, not by duplicitous negotiating strategies by Bob Crow

I don’t agree with your assertion that because some people in London earn high salaries, possibly as a result of being highly intelligent, highly educated, massively committed over a long time to building a career, and often making huge sacrifices to family life and personal time, that tube drivers are worth the same for doing a fixed hours role with very little complexity that requires 16 weeks training, because they live in the same city

[Welshbeef]

johnxjsc1985 said:

Welshbeef said:

Is it just me that would actually want a highly competent -tune driver responsible for the lives of hundreds/thousands of passengers.

I’d rather higher salary for good skilled individuals to ensure my and others safe travel.

he drives one way in a controlled environment have you see what Bus drivers have to put up with

I’ve no idea of the challenges or not of train/tube drivers but clearly remember the accidents where so many lives were taken - it might be a higher number of acccidents with weaker candidates. Highly engaged competent individuals are hopefully at the helm of Tubes and Train drivers.

[valiant]

johnxjsc1985 said:

valiant said:

You're comparing oranges with apples.

Apart from having wheels and carrying passengers the jobs are not really comparable.

Might as well compare it to a pilot or a ship's captain for all the similarity there is.

when did you last drive a bus or get on board one . They are infinity more difficult to drive and get around a city on time picking up passengers and taking fares all the time having to deal with other road users. They arent comparable because the poor bus driver has a much more difficult job. I have never seen such a bizarre response to a post. One Driver has a highly regulated controlled environment with no other traffic to negotiate the other a bus driver has to negotiate many different routes and levels of traffic.

I’m not putting down bus drivers at all and I do think it’s a difficult and challenging job especially in London.

My beef is with the comparison between the two and that aside from ferrying passengers, the jobs aren’t really comparable.

How many bus companies train drivers up from scratch (not having a drivers licence)?. They build on exiting knowledge and experience. How many bus drivers fix there own buses on the road? How many bus drivers have an intimate working knowledge of all the signals he passes and also has to have an in-depth knowledge of what the person controlling those signals has to make sure what he’s been told is correct?

Like I said, oranges and apples.

[jakesmith]

valiant said:

How many bus drivers fix there own buses on the road?
.

What does that mean? Do tube drivers repair the trains?

[anonymous-user]

chunder27 said:

Ruthless, cowardly, feckless tossers the lot of them.

Nothing hard about the job, no skill involved, waiting list as long as your arm.

in this day and age, its absurd, put simply.

Jealous, much?

[Jonesy23]

It's oh such a difficult job, yet can be entirely automated out of existence. And has already been elsewhere.

[James P]

jakesmith said:

valiant said:

How many bus drivers fix there own buses on the road?
.

What does that mean? Do tube drivers repair the trains?

I’d hope that all bus drivers know the meaning of every signal they pass when they’re driving too. Odd to imply that they don’t (unless the meaning is that they should be able to mend traffic signals).

[J4CKO]

jakesmith said:

J4CKO said:

Why shouldnt people earn decent money ?

The Tube system is massively busy and I expect it makes money, plenty of people in London making six figures plus into the millions ?

Its a responsible job, I cant imagine its that hard if the training is sixteen weeks but with responsibility comes a decent wage, I am sure given half a chance some private company would take over and pay 18k per year and just give the job to anyone, then wonder why they dont turn in or dont give a st.

Free markets determine remuneration by how difficult it is to replace people

Closed shop industries that use strikes to artificially inflate salaries, and use protectionist strategies to prevent available and competent labour moving into the company, forces up the prices for consumers and creates an artificially high level of remuneration

People should be paid according to the skill, talent, responsibility they have and employ in their role, not by duplicitous negotiating strategies by Bob Crow

I don’t agree with your assertion that because some people in London earn high salaries, possibly as a result of being highly intelligent, highly educated, massively committed over a long time to building a career, and often making huge sacrifices to family life and personal time, that tube drivers are worth the same for doing a fixed hours role with very little complexity that requires 16 weeks training, because they live in the same city

Cant argue with any of that, so perhaps the true value is somewhere between the lowest common denominator and what they are on now in a heavily unionised and "protectionist" regime.

I dont think all jobs that arent based on huge reserves of skill and experience should be minimum wage or not far above, it is only 16 weeks training but I would imagine not all make the grade and it requires more than that training period perhaps suggests, plus being in the capital I imagine it doesn't go far anyway.

They earn the same basic as I do in IT, I suspect I would stand a better chance learning how to drive a tube train than they would trying to learn what I do, its fking tedious and ridiculously complicated

I just like the idea that people should earn a living wage whatever they do.

[StanleyT]

jakesmith said:

Friend of a friend is a tube driver, she is a lovely lady but not particularly talented in any respect. If she went to get a normal office job I think she would struggle to get a good PA type role paying £25k-£30k
It has to be said that the job requires intense concentration at all times and a slip up could be catostrophic

However it is a ridiculously unionised business and all the union does is aggressively fight for pay increases at every opportunity with no regard for the public who use their service who are effectively their pawns

Tube drivers are allowed to take up to 5 days sick leave per quarter without it being looked at or requiring a doctor's note, so if they haven't been sick that quarter, in the last week they phone in sick every day. This is rife and totally common practice, so she tells me

She actually went on a holiday to Dubai in one of these quarterly 'sick weeks'

It is a disguising abuse of power by the union and vile lack of decency and commitment from the staff. And shows that Thatcher was right in dismantling them. In Germany unions are a pain but they understand the business has to work and make money. In the UK unions are for bloated turgid flatulent greedy pigs who care only about themselves and definitely not their poor customers

I worked for a nuclear power company in the 1980s where you were "expected" to take your two weeks "scheduled sick" every year and if you didn't you were seen to be letting down the side. Even the project planning software had 2 weeks sick as default unavailability in resource loading!!!!!

Even today, post privatisation / gov quangos running it, that organisation has a sick leave average twice that of any private company in the same market ~8 days short term sick vs ~4 days in private)!

Tube driving though is very hard and is worth of the extra money. Driving a train isn't like a truck on a motorway, those rails you have to steer the train on are really narrow and doing it in the dark ( * ) must make it harder.

( * ) I don't do London if I can help it but was most amused to see a Picadilly line train with "tube drivers do it in the dark" on the rear end of the train sticker. At Richmond, on the overground........

[jakesmith]

J4CKO said:

Cant argue with any of that, so perhaps the true value is somewhere between the lowest common denominator and what they are on now in a heavily unionised and "protectionist" regime.

I dont think all jobs that arent based on huge reserves of skill and experience should be minimum wage or not far above, it is only 16 weeks training but I would imagine not all make the grade and it requires more than that training period perhaps suggests, plus being in the capital I imagine it doesn't go far anyway.

They earn the same basic as I do in IT, I suspect I would stand a better chance learning how to drive a tube train than they would trying to learn what I do, its fking tedious and ridiculously complicated

I just like the idea that people should earn a living wage whatever they do.

Yes of course. In a fair society as I would define it, people with better talent and skill earn more but the minimum wage is sufficient for people to afford a decent life. That would probably involve much higher taxation and not just of Comrade Corbyns elite 5%

[Countdown]

chunder27 said:

Ruthless, cowardly, feckless tossers the lot of them.

Ruthless probably. I’m not sure why you consider them to be cowardly or feckless to be honest.

[rsbmw]

jakesmith said:

Yes of course. In a fair society as I would define it, people with better talent and skill earn more but the minimum wage is sufficient for people to afford a decent life. That would probably involve much higher taxation and not just of Comrade Corbyns elite 5%

What do you think happens to the cost of essential goods and services if the bottom earners employed to produce those goods and services are suddenly on much higher salaries? They rise sharply, at which point those higher salaries are no longer sufficient to buy the essentials. Rinse and repeat.

[98elise]

valiant said:

Russian Troll Bot said:

It's because it's a closed market, the general public cannot even apply. Quite how this is allowed I don't know, because you would find millions of people who would do it for far less.

You're talking uninformed nonsense (but hey, it is NP&E)

Explain please how night tube drivers were advertised? That's right, it was advertised via the careers page of the TfL website. This has happened around 3 or 4 times since the inception of night tube. Open to all to apply. Massively over subscribed so it seems some people can see beyond the usual 'closed shop' bullst and are currently enjoying a driving career with LUL.

Also, full time positions were advertised openly when the last lot of upgrades were coming to fruition a few years back.

Drivers earn £55k with no voluntary overtime. 8 weeks holiday but this does include all bank holidays and staff work 1.5 hrs unpaid overtime (built into the rota) every week which comes back as annual leave and is included within the 8 weeks. Take all that away and you get something like 25 days.

Tube drivers get around the market rate for the job and we are around the middle when compared to other train companies. (I think Virgin are one of the best around £60-70k and the worst pays around £35k - Arriva Wales, I think but not too sure)

Its not a market rate. If it was a market rate then it would be significantly lower. It's a rate set by holding the train operators to ransom, and the deep pockets of customers who have no choice.

If it were a true market any unionised train company would be out of business.

[Gecko1978]

Tom Logan said:

So, there are one man band IT throbbers on here whimpering because a 'lowly' train driver earns decent cash doing a job requiring total concentration and committment.

I wonder how many TfL underground workers are on here half the day spouting ste? Not many I would venture.

Pathetic.

it does not require total concentration, some lines are now so automated all the driver does is operate the mic, bordom causes them to fiddle with it will day where upon it gets damaged an train is then out of service.

This is a medium skilled job with a high paid salary. good for tube drivers if they can get 200k a year good for them but don't expect it to last. Flexible working, automation and uber etc will see demand for tube to fall and it will become uncompetitive. Nothing last forever a a service beset by industrial action and union waste will be the death of such jobs

[Jim the Sunderer]

I'm surprised these trains aren't automated, I'm also surprised air traffic control isn't either.

Though I suspect the trains are incredibly easy in comparison.