tube drivers on 100k+

[TwigtheWonderkid]

The bottom line is this. For every £1 received in revenue by TFL in respect of the Underground, 68p covers the entire running of the whole network, staff costs and all other running costs. Not a huge proportion. The remaining 32p would be sheer profit, if TFL were a normal business. But TFL don't operate for profit and the 32p in the pound profit is invested back into the Network on upgrading it and improving it.

[anonymous-user]

Politics of envy, why is everyone in Britain so jealous of success. You bitter lefties need to stop hating the elites and top tax payers.

These salaries are contractual and they all pay tax on them so it’s a win win.

They add much more value than that to the U.K. economy. If they get their salaries reduced they’ll all go abroad where people don’t hate successful people and drive trains there instead.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 17th December 10:44

[valiant]

El stovey said:

Politics of envy, why is everyone in Britain so jealous of success.

These salaries are contractual and they all pay tax on them so it’s a win win.

They add much value than that to the U.K. economy. If they get their salaries reduced they’ll all go abroad and drive trains there instead.

Had a little look deeper and it turns out that the £100k includes all employee costs to the company (such as pension contributions and company NI contributions) this was applied to a small subsection of drivers who operate as ‘test train’ operators (there’s only about 30-40 of them out of approx 3500 drivers). These guys do earn more as they have to have extensive multi stock knowledge and route knowledge of the entire network plus they can hammer the overtime which ‘normal’ drivers are not allowed to do.

A bog standard driver earns £55k and an instructor a little more and that’s it. No voluntary overtime, no bonuses just the above. Also there is no grades to work through. Whether you’ve just passed out or just retired after 40 years service, you’re on the same pay.

[jakesmith]

rsbmw said:

What do you think happens to the cost of essential goods and services if the bottom earners employed to produce those goods and services are suddenly on much higher salaries? They rise sharply, at which point those higher salaries are no longer sufficient to buy the essentials. Rinse and repeat.

Of course. It needs to happen gradually to avoid that sort of inflation

[irocfan]

valiant said:

A bog standard driver earns £55k and an instructor a little more and that’s it. No voluntary overtime, no bonuses just the above. Also there is no grades to work through. Whether you’ve just passed out or just retired after 40 years service, you’re on the same pay.

So "just" £55k for a job a monkey could do and retire at 60 (50 if you can cope with less money).

On the one hand fk crowe/his successor (& serwotka/mcclusky at al). On the other they're there to get the best for their members - which they seem to do. Regrettably Maggie didn't finish the job.

[anonymous-user]

irocfan said:

So "just" £55k for a job a monkey could do and retire at 60 (50 if you can cope with less money).

On the one hand fk crowe/his successor (& serwotka/mcclusky at al). On the other they're there to get the best for their members - which they seem to do. Regrettably Maggie didn't finish the job.

Politics of envy.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

irocfan said:

So "just" £55k for a job a monkey could do and retire at 60 (50 if you can cope with less money).

On the one hand fk crowe/his successor (& serwotka/mcclusky at al). On the other they're there to get the best for their members - which they seem to do. Regrettably Maggie didn't finish the job.

If an organisation can easily afford to pay its staff inflated salaries, where's the harm I understand most cleaners are on minimum wage, but if you're a cleaner at Goldman Sachs, and they can afford to pay their cleaner £20/hour and still make millions, what's the problem with that?

[Shakermaker]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

If an organisation can easily afford to pay its staff inflated salaries, where's the harm I understand most cleaners are on minimum wage, but if you're a cleaner at Goldman Sachs, and they can afford to pay their cleaner £20/hour and still make millions, what's the problem with that?

such is the state of some newspapers/commentators that we are in a situation where one side will say "Look! These people are being paid £100k a year to just drive a train!" which includes all benefits, bells, whistles, overtime, holiday, NI, pension, bonus, discounted chocolate bars etc etc.

And then, the other side will say "Look! Super mega rich firm only pays its cleaners less than minimum wage because they have to pay to drive to work and get the bus and they all have to have NI and tax deducted"

[Otispunkmeyer]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

irocfan said:

So "just" £55k for a job a monkey could do and retire at 60 (50 if you can cope with less money).

On the one hand fk crowe/his successor (& serwotka/mcclusky at al). On the other they're there to get the best for their members - which they seem to do. Regrettably Maggie didn't finish the job.

If an organisation can easily afford to pay its staff inflated salaries, where's the harm I understand most cleaners are on minimum wage, but if you're a cleaner at Goldman Sachs, and they can afford to pay their cleaner £20/hour and still make millions, what's the problem with that?

I guess its fine so long as the punters in London who use the tube (and perhaps don't currently have much other transport choice) are ok with the inflated prices. Its pretty much the most expensive city underground service in the world. My favorite equivalent is the MTR in HK though, Its a pleasure to use and very cheap. They don't have full automation though, they have Grade of Automation level 4 on just 2 lines, the rest are level 2 where you must have someone in the cab still for safe operation to spot track issues and operate doors etc (though the train itself can manage its way between stations on its own).

In the UK airport trams are full level 4 (if people are wondering what this is like)
the DLR is level 3 (needs some on board, but not necessarily in the cab)
The rest is level 2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_ur...

I don't think we are set up too bad really, certainly not the worst for this automation lark. Seems its only really East Asia that is embracing it a bit more strongly. A lot of western fully autonomous systems are employed on airport trams and the like which, by comparison, are pretty simple set ups compared with the tube.

[TwistingMyMelon]

Fair play £60k is a fair salary in my mind considering how much London relies on the Tube

Day to day their job is easy, they earn their money when things go wrong

As for automation - good luck with that one

Lifes not fair, some people do jobs with unjust salaries, such is life

Ive just looked on the TFL site and a Tube maintenance technician is on £50k a year

Edited by TwistingMyMelon on Monday 17th December 12:30

[turbomoped]

No idea why jobs where safety is important allow extra hrs and shifts and minimal monitoring.
Thinking of that idiot driving the tram and his buddies that tried taking the bend as fast as they could.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

irocfan said:

So "just" £55k for a job a monkey could do and retire at 60 (50 if you can cope with less money).

On the one hand fk crowe/his successor (& serwotka/mcclusky at al). On the other they're there to get the best for their members - which they seem to do. Regrettably Maggie didn't finish the job.

Yes, perish the thought that normal working people should earn a decent wage.

Maybe tube workers don't earn too much at all. Perhaps we just don't realise that many people earn too little. Even when working for hugely profitable organisations.

[HOGEPH]

What price for the possibility that someone is going to jump in front of your train one day...

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I guess its fine so long as the punters in London who use the tube (and perhaps don't currently have much other transport choice) are ok with the inflated prices.

If they are making 32p on every pound in clear profit, instead of re-investing it all, they could use some of it to lower fares and still keep up the decent pay structure.

The tube isn't cheap but it's not hugely expensive either. £12/day for unlimited travel on tubes and buses in zones 1-4.

[Rich_W]

jakesmith said:

... In the UK unions are for bloated turgid flatulent greedy pigs who care only about themselves and definitely not their poor customers

I'm a member of a large national union, along with many (but not all) of my colleagues. They were trying to negotiate a pay rise for 2018 and 2019.

Honestly what they are asking for is not a huge amount. 3% Under the terms of course this wouldn't be just for Union staff but for all in the same department.

TBH They balloted us twice on the deal they had "negotiated"

First time for 1.5% We declined to accept
Second Time for the same 1.5% (all backdated to the start of the year) and 2.5% for next year.

Older members of staff wanted to go on strike! They had some imaginary world where if we just stopped working for a few days the company would cave in and give us everything we ever dreamed of.

I just wanted the money! It was passed


TBH The Union couldn't negotiate st! My employer was never going to fold. Even though we are currently performing better than ever before. It was ridiculous and I did wonder what the point of my £15 a month actually was..

[turbobloke]

HOGEPH said:

What price for the possibility that someone is going to jump in front of your train one day...

£100k+ apparently.

[Camoradi]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

They have to have lightning fast reactions



.......for phoning their union rep every time they are asked to do something which might be deemed slightly outside their terms of employment

[Elliot2000]

jakesmith said:

Of course. It needs to happen gradually to avoid that sort of inflation

It doesn’t matter how slowly it happens- if everyone is on high pay- everything gets more expensive - it’s just the way capitalism works

[V8 Fettler]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I guess its fine so long as the punters in London who use the tube (and perhaps don't currently have much other transport choice) are ok with the inflated prices. Its pretty much the most expensive city underground service in the world. My favorite equivalent is the MTR in HK though, Its a pleasure to use and very cheap. They don't have full automation though, they have Grade of Automation level 4 on just 2 lines, the rest are level 2 where you must have someone in the cab still for safe operation to spot track issues and operate doors etc (though the train itself can manage its way between stations on its own).

In the UK airport trams are full level 4 (if people are wondering what this is like)
the DLR is level 3 (needs some on board, but not necessarily in the cab)
The rest is level 2

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automated_ur...

I don't think we are set up too bad really, certainly not the worst for this automation lark. Seems its only really East Asia that is embracing it a bit more strongly. A lot of western fully autonomous systems are employed on airport trams and the like which, by comparison, are pretty simple set ups compared with the tube.

There hasn't been much progress in the UK for fifty years https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwRRSJ_wtIg&fe...

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Elliot2000 said:

It doesn’t matter how slowly it happens- if everyone is on high pay- everything gets more expensive - it’s just the way capitalism works

That depends on the profitability of the product you provide, and other things too. If you have a company with some people on stupidly high pay, and others on low pay, you could reduce the pay of those at the top to just very high from stupid high, and up others to high.

Or you could reduce shareholders dividend and cut profitability by increasing pay for the lowest paid staff. Whilst still paying a reasonable dividend and making an acceptable profit. Or you could invest less in upgrades (but still invest) and pay staff more.

The tube network has many of these options open to it.