How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)
Discussion
Tuna said:
And again, I'll point to the Lancaster House speech - that was widely accepted as a good definition of Leave. May herself defined "what was being asked of them" - sufficiently well to satisfy just about everyone.
Remind me when the Lancaster House speech was?How can you have a referendum and then get to define what people voted for afterwards?
cookie118 said:
Tuna said:
But yeah.. this government has royally screwed up implementing the vote. How does that reduce the legitimacy of what was being asked of them?
This works both ways though.The rhetoric from a lot of leave voters in here, especially when talking about younger remain voters, is that remain voters are naive or under researched on the EU, or that they were scared by exaggerated reports that haven’t come true and therefore their voices aren’t legitimate.
Add in to that some posters openly saying that remain voters shouldn’t have any say in what kind of brexit we get and is it any wonder that positions have become more entrenched rather than less?
And has anything that has happened since the referendum result reduced the legitimacy of remainers voices? Brexit affects us all, and should be implemented with 100% of the country in mind.
just caught up on 26 (standard) pages,nearly lost the will to live. same old trope from the same old quarter. will never understand that the vast majority have nothing against europeans or europe (well apart from one italian that tried to stab me many years ago,but i don't bear grudges ,so only mildly disgruntled about it at this point in time) it is politicians and political empire builders where the ire is directed. all of them including our own .
i know absolutely no one that wants more politicians or political interference in their life, no one at all. reducing the influence of one large group of them that is the eu is one way of showing this. hopefully down the road our own lot will get the message. if not they will be made to get it by the electorate.
i know absolutely no one that wants more politicians or political interference in their life, no one at all. reducing the influence of one large group of them that is the eu is one way of showing this. hopefully down the road our own lot will get the message. if not they will be made to get it by the electorate.
cookie118 said:
This works both ways though.
The rhetoric from a lot of leave voters in here, especially when talking about younger remain voters, is that remain voters are naive or under researched on the EU, or that they were scared by exaggerated reports that haven’t come true and therefore their voices aren’t legitimate.
Add in to that some posters openly saying that remain voters shouldn’t have any say in what kind of brexit we get and is it any wonder that positions have become more entrenched rather than less?
And has anything that has happened since the referendum result reduced the legitimacy of remainers voices? Brexit affects us all, and should be implemented with 100% of the country in mind.
Indeed, I can absolutely agree with that - it was as much a job to deliver something Remain could be satisfied with, even if it wasn't actually Remaining. I hoped our government could at least offer a positive vision of "what comes next", which might have brought sides together.The rhetoric from a lot of leave voters in here, especially when talking about younger remain voters, is that remain voters are naive or under researched on the EU, or that they were scared by exaggerated reports that haven’t come true and therefore their voices aren’t legitimate.
Add in to that some posters openly saying that remain voters shouldn’t have any say in what kind of brexit we get and is it any wonder that positions have become more entrenched rather than less?
And has anything that has happened since the referendum result reduced the legitimacy of remainers voices? Brexit affects us all, and should be implemented with 100% of the country in mind.
As for what posters say - well, yes, some people talk s
t. I don't think you can ascribe anything said on here to majority opinion.But the government could not deliver both Remain and Leave. The only thing they can implement with 100% of the country in mind is a deal that gives the country economic flexibility and control. Demanding a half-way house ends up with the sort of deal we're about to see attacked in parliament.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: Remind me when the Lancaster House speech was?
How can you have a referendum and then get to define what people voted for afterwards?
"You voted for this"... "this is how we're going to deliver it"How can you have a referendum and then get to define what people voted for afterwards?
It pretty much had to be that way... the vote card was too small to ask every last detail that had to go into negotiations.
Edited by Tuna on Saturday 12th January 21:12
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Tuna said:
And again, I'll point to the Lancaster House speech - that was widely accepted as a good definition of Leave. May herself defined "what was being asked of them" - sufficiently well to satisfy just about everyone.
Remind me when the Lancaster House speech was?How can you have a referendum and then get to define what people voted for afterwards?
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/2016081...
https://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/2016081...
Edited by NoNeed on Saturday 12th January 21:13
bhstewie said:
hstewie said:Tuna said:
And again, I'll point to the Lancaster House speech - that was widely accepted as a good definition of Leave. May herself defined "what was being asked of them" - sufficiently well to satisfy just about everyone.
Remind me when the Lancaster House speech was?How can you have a referendum and then get to define what people voted for afterwards?
powerstroke said:
This so called crashing out ?? is it like when the Berlin wall came down and east and west Germany reunited ..
we crash out of the EU and reunite with the rest of the world ???
Have you really thought that we've been cut off from the rest of the world during our membership of the EU?we crash out of the EU and reunite with the rest of the world ???
You should tell the countless businesses trading all around the world from the UK that they've been doing it wrong
vonuber said:
powerstroke said:
This so called crashing out ?? is it like when the Berlin wall came down and east and west Germany reunited ..
we crash out of the EU and reunite with the rest of the world ???
No.we crash out of the EU and reunite with the rest of the world ???
Are you quite sure ?? seems there are plenty of countries and then the commonwealth with 53 countries and 2.4 billion people
its nice to deal with Europe but there're other places to buy stuff from and sell our industries and utility companies to ..
oh well heres hoping For a no deal , millions of disgruntled Europeans are hoping it's the chance for the start of a new dawn for Europe ...
Greg66 said:
B'stard Child said:
I shall commit right from the start that I will not use the expression F*xtr*tt O***r again having served my ban from this thread
Apologies to those who were offended and for the additional work caused to the moderators in cleaning up the thread
Thanks to those on both sides who enabled this thread to progress from 117 pages to 125 pages and consequently reduce the length of my Ban.
Why thank you, Mr Child. I was, quite naturally, deeply upset and cried myself to sleep. Apologies to those who were offended and for the additional work caused to the moderators in cleaning up the thread
Thanks to those on both sides who enabled this thread to progress from 117 pages to 125 pages and consequently reduce the length of my Ban.
Not. On either score.
I can’t now recall what I said to you but I’m sure it was immaculate in both conception and execution, had ladies fainting and gentlemen gaffawing but embarrassed at the same time. Certain of it.
Best though that we all pretend to be nice to each other.
I don't have a problem with people who voted remain I know lots of them and the fact I voted leave doesn't mean we aren't still friends
It was a binary choice and I made mine
powerstroke said:
vonuber said:
powerstroke said:
This so called crashing out ?? is it like when the Berlin wall came down and east and west Germany reunited ..
we crash out of the EU and reunite with the rest of the world ???
No.we crash out of the EU and reunite with the rest of the world ???
Are you quite sure ?? seems there are plenty of countries and then the commonwealth with 53 countries and 2.4 billion people
its nice to deal with Europe but there're other places to buy stuff from and sell our industries and utility companies to ..
oh well heres hoping For a no deal , millions of disgruntled Europeans are hoping it's the chance for the start of a new dawn for Europe ...
Garvin said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
. . . . . . . . I don't see the EU trying to lock us into the backstop.
On what basis don’t you see this? If the EU aren’t going to lock us in why did they insist on it?The reason for that is that the EU does not want us in the backstop because May's deal commits us to a future relationship that builds on the provisions of the backstop. They don't want us in the backstop, they want us in something worse, the backstop + common fisheries and something on Gibraltar + whatever else is pilled on top.
The fundamental problem with May's deal, all the bleating about the backstop aside, is that it makes the Customs Union that has been ruled out time and time again inevitable. And with no exit clause.
Helicopter123 said:
But then we would have the £39bn back in our pocket.
No, we wouldn't. Roughly half of the £39bn is to cover the budget of the EU until the end of the Multi-annual Financial Framework that runs to the end of 2020 (that's why that was picked as the end of the transition period). The other half of it relates to ongoing financial commitments made to the EU for other things, including pensions, to be paid out in decreasing quantities over the next 50 years or so (basically until the last dependent of a British person who worked for the EU before 29/03/19 has died).
The only way we get the £39bn in our pocket is if we leave with no deal.
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