How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

[Blackpuddin]

bhstewie said:

Anyone watching Marr?

I do find Kier Starmer sounds very sensible and reasoned.

Makes you think a little about what would happen if you put aside the red and blue rosettes.

If we sampled MPs real politics as opposed to their party politics there would be very little difference between any of them. Unfortunately the imperative to maintain the utterly irrelevant party structure is overriding any considerations of national interest. Parliament these days is a pathetic mixture of pantomime and virtue signalling. Time to get shot.

[anonymous-user]

Starmer is the same animal as grieve, stood on a manifesto of leaving the EU and has been doing all he can to overturn that.

[don'tbesilly]

bhstewie said:

Anyone watching Marr?

I do find Kier Starmer sounds very sensible and reasoned.

Makes you think a little about what would happen if you put aside the red and blue rosettes.

If you voted Remain in 2016 & now think thwarting or even stopping Brexit is the way forward I'd agree with you.
It's a shame Starmer wouldn't commit to just what Labours manifesto would support at any election, he wouldn't commit to a similar one as 2017, nor did he have the courage to say it would support remaining in the EU, which based on what he was saying throughout the interview it would have to do.

What did you think of Fox?
Did you think the portrayal many give on here of Fox and where future trade deals currently lie is either balanced or true, if Fox was as believable as you think Starmer was?

[wc98]

davepoth said:

I don't think they care.

This is why Leadsom put the vote quite a long way into the future - so that they'd have a bit of a run-up at whatever it is they need to do. There's no guarantee all of labour will vote for this (it's a massive bomb into the parliamentary system and I don't know whether they'll be happy with it) but if it does look like it's going to be voted through then the PM might choose to prorogue parliament to kill it if that's the only option left.

What Grieve is attempting to do is really quite dangerous in terms of how it will affect the Commons, quite apart from the effect it will have on Brexit.

when you think about it , it is actually quite brave of him. yes it is dangerous in terms of future ramifications for parliamentary procedure ,but i would suggest it is quite dangerous for him personally, perhaps more so. lot of nutters out there and given how the msm like to bandy about the traitor/enemy of the people tag line i hope his security arrangements are in order.

[s2art]

ash73 said:

dangerousB said:

ash73 said:

Interesting presentation by Dominic Cummings, the brain behind Vote Leave.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CDbRxH9Kiy4

Thanks for posting

Lots more detail here, for anyone interested.

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/dominic-cumm...

Could be the most (or even first) intelligent political analysis I have read.

[anonymous-user]

Crackie said:

Ghibli said:

Benbay001 said:

Maybe you would be so good as to type it again.

Now we have had the vote we are left with no deal.

Options no deal or remain.

Agreed regarding the part in bold.

On what grounds, beyond wishful thinking, do you think Remain should be back on the table?

Edited by Crackie on Sunday 20th January 10:03

Have a look on page 159 where you got the quote from.

[davepoth]

wc98 said:

when you think about it , it is actually quite brave of him. yes it is dangerous in terms of future ramifications for parliamentary procedure ,but i would suggest it is quite dangerous for him personally, perhaps more so. lot of nutters out there and given how the msm like to bandy about the traitor/enemy of the people tag line i hope his security arrangements are in order.

True enough. He was interviewed on Radio 4's Broadcasting House this morning. Shortly afterwards on the same show there was a piece on the Mayor of Bristol, who has received a death threat (scrawled on a wall outside his house) for advocating the removal of a statue of a bear from a roundabout.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/de...

If people will go that far for something so trivial it's a bit scary to imagine what could happen.

[Tony427]

plasticpig said:

Tuna said:

I'm one of the people who think a WTO exit on March 29th would be much like Y2K - a complete anticlimax for the man on the street. The big headline things have been dealt with, and the people who want to drum up hysteria are shouting about things that either aren't going to happen or are nothing to do with Brexit (like the annual shortage of medicines around Flu season). Sure, it's not going to be perfect, but it's survivable and that's all the Tories need.

I am sure everybody will be able to visit a supermarket a week after a no deal Brexit and find food on the shelves. PLC's usually have the resources to be able to guarantee their supply and distribution chain.

Where the st will hit the fan is in the SME sector. Small companies don't want to invest time and money in preparing for outcomes that are unlikely to happen. Until quite recently a no deal Brexit was unlikely to happen. The assumption has been there will be a transition period whatever the deal so prepariaton can be kicked down the road for a year.

This of course is a two way street if small companies in the UK are not prepared then how prepared are the their counterparts in the EU? Both as suppliers and customers.

I think that most sensible SME's are prepared for any type of Brexit. Its incumbent on a business to plan for whatever is coming down the track, be it competitors, market changes, economic changes or as in this case political changes.

Soon as the refreendum was over I contacted my suppliers, 90% EU based, and made arrangements so that i would in no way be inconvenienced. Plans put into place for whatever outcome of the Leave negotiations, in plenty of time. Any good management would be doing the same. If ythe business is now claiming that it will be unable to cope it only has its management to blame.

My customers in turn have been informed about the Brexit planning and are happy with what we have put into place.

There has been no drama. I would like to bet that the vast majority of companies have done the same.

All talk of Armageddon is just that, talk. Project fear V2.1.

[frisbee]

Tony427 said:

I think that most sensible SME's are prepared for any type of Brexit. Its incumbent on a business to plan for whatever is coming down the track, be it competitors, market changes, economic changes or as in this case political changes.

Soon as the refreendum was over I contacted my suppliers, 90% EU based, and made arrangements so that i would in no way be inconvenienced. Plans put into place for whatever outcome of the Leave negotiations, in plenty of time. Any good management would be doing the same. If ythe business is now claiming that it will be unable to cope it only has its management to blame.

My customers in turn have been informed about the Brexit planning and are happy with what we have put into place.

There has been no drama. I would like to bet that the vast majority of companies have done the same.

All talk of Armageddon is just that, talk. Project fear V2.1.

So your suppliers magically bypass all customs and typical forms of transportation such as ferries? That's impressive.

Project head in the sand V1.0.

[Helicopter123]

davepoth said:

wc98 said:

when you think about it , it is actually quite brave of him. yes it is dangerous in terms of future ramifications for parliamentary procedure ,but i would suggest it is quite dangerous for him personally, perhaps more so. lot of nutters out there and given how the msm like to bandy about the traitor/enemy of the people tag line i hope his security arrangements are in order.

True enough. He was interviewed on Radio 4's Broadcasting House this morning. Shortly afterwards on the same show there was a piece on the Mayor of Bristol, who has received a death threat (scrawled on a wall outside his house) for advocating the removal of a statue of a bear from a roundabout.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/de...

If people will go that far for something so trivial it's a bit scary to imagine what could happen.

Good point.

We must all remain vigilant and resist any real or tacit threats of violence from so called 'yellow vest' types who seek to intimidate our elected representatives. That is one thing I'm sure we can all agree upon.

[steve_k]

frisbee said:

Tony427 said:

I think that most sensible SME's are prepared for any type of Brexit. Its incumbent on a business to plan for whatever is coming down the track, be it competitors, market changes, economic changes or as in this case political changes.

Soon as the refreendum was over I contacted my suppliers, 90% EU based, and made arrangements so that i would in no way be inconvenienced. Plans put into place for whatever outcome of the Leave negotiations, in plenty of time. Any good management would be doing the same. If ythe business is now claiming that it will be unable to cope it only has its management to blame.

My customers in turn have been informed about the Brexit planning and are happy with what we have put into place.

There has been no drama. I would like to bet that the vast majority of companies have done the same.

All talk of Armageddon is just that, talk. Project fear V2.1.

So your suppliers magically bypass all customs and typical forms of transportation such as ferries? That's impressive.

Project head in the sand V1.0.

These customs and typical forms you talk of are they new forms or just the same forms the EU members and UK already use for trade with the rest of the world outside the EU protectionist bubble?

Project making up bks forms version1.0

[wc98]

davepoth said:

True enough. He was interviewed on Radio 4's Broadcasting House this morning. Shortly afterwards on the same show there was a piece on the Mayor of Bristol, who has received a death threat (scrawled on a wall outside his house) for advocating the removal of a statue of a bear from a roundabout.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/de...

If people will go that far for something so trivial it's a bit scary to imagine what could happen.

i know there is an argument that members of the public have had to put up with less visible policing so the politicians should have the same.for me in the current situation given what happened in the lead up to the referendum, i think it would be wise to make sure those at the forefront of the media reports have a bit of extra security.

[Tuna]

toppstuff said:

Brexit cheerleaders have it all wrong.

Remain has not helped.

The issue here is not what happens right after we leave. That is just the media and politicians talking rubbish.

The problem is what happens over 5 years, 10 years, 15 years.

The ex chairman of Nissan was on R4 on Friday as a part of an article about Sunderland. He explained how large companies like Nissan make decisions for 5-20 year time lines. They are already committed to the UK and Sunderland following decisions they made years ago. That won’t change overnight. The mistake Leavers are making is to extrapolate from this that fears are over blown - “ Project Fear”. This is a mistake.

The problems of being out of the EU and SM are going to be felt when the next round of capital expenditure is due. Does the money go to the UK or another plant in another country ?

The ex chairman of Nissan said that the company will still be in the UK in 10 years time. However will it have the same size or will the gravity of shifted to another country because of brexit ?? In his opinion, brexit makes the cards dealt for the UK weaker.

It's an interesting point, but the part I have biggest problems with is the idea that the only thing that they'll measure for the next round of expenditure is whether or not we're in the EU.

The bad news is that being in absolutely does not protect investment in the UK - one of the explicit goals of the Union is to make workforces and investment mobile. So long as we're bound to the same rules, it is easier for the decision makers at Nissan to close down a plant in one member state and move it to another, more cost effective state. That's exactly why Nissan et. al. love the EU - what would otherwise be a difficult political decision can now just be made on the grounds of where the work can be done. It's no more controversial than moving a plant from Coventry to Birmingham.

In case you missed the memo, the EU is directly on the path to globalisation - that's great for corporations, but can be a bit stty for the people who work for them.

I'm confused by the idea that competition outside the EU is red in tooth and claw, but inside we're all friends. It doesn't work that way - at all.

[amusingduck]

wc98 said:

davepoth said:

True enough. He was interviewed on Radio 4's Broadcasting House this morning. Shortly afterwards on the same show there was a piece on the Mayor of Bristol, who has received a death threat (scrawled on a wall outside his house) for advocating the removal of a statue of a bear from a roundabout.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/de...

If people will go that far for something so trivial it's a bit scary to imagine what could happen.

i know there is an argument that members of the public have had to put up with less visible policing so the politicians should have the same.for me in the current situation given what happened in the lead up to the referendum, i think it would be wise to make sure those at the forefront of the media reports have a bit of extra security.

A friend of my missus was mugged a few months ago. Police were utterly useless, didn't bother attempting to apprehend the culprits despite a live "find my iPhone" feed. "Best I can do is to interview you tomorrow" was effectively the outcome.

Why should they receive preferential treatment with the services they've gutted?

Apply the same response to MP's, let's see how fking quickly that st gets sorted out. If we must have people suffering as a result of those cuts, who deserves it more than the people responsible for implementing them?

[pingu393]

amusingduck said:

wc98 said:

davepoth said:

True enough. He was interviewed on Radio 4's Broadcasting House this morning. Shortly afterwards on the same show there was a piece on the Mayor of Bristol, who has received a death threat (scrawled on a wall outside his house) for advocating the removal of a statue of a bear from a roundabout.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/de...

If people will go that far for something so trivial it's a bit scary to imagine what could happen.

i know there is an argument that members of the public have had to put up with less visible policing so the politicians should have the same.for me in the current situation given what happened in the lead up to the referendum, i think it would be wise to make sure those at the forefront of the media reports have a bit of extra security.

A friend of my missus was mugged a few months ago. Police were utterly useless, didn't bother attempting to apprehend the culprits despite a live "find my iPhone" feed. "Best I can do is to interview you tomorrow" was effectively the outcome.

Why should they receive preferential treatment with the services they've gutted?

Apply the same response to MP's, let's see how fking quickly that st gets sorted out. If we must have people suffering as a result of those cuts, who deserves it more than the people responsible for implementing them?

Watch how fast they respond when you tell them that you'll deal with it yourself

[Jessica_GTi]

Tuna said:

The words just come out of your mouth without the intervention of a single brain cell, don't they?

Good post.

[gooner1]

Helicopter123 said:

Good point.

We must all remain vigilant and resist any real or tacit threats of violence from so called 'yellow vest' types who seek to intimidate our elected representatives. That is one thing I'm sure we can all agree upon.

Agreed.
Respecting the result of the referendum and leaving under the No Deal deal option
on the 29th of March , would prevent such events from occuring.

[alfie2244]

Tuna said:

The words just come out of your mouth without the intervention of a single brain cell, don't they?

Probably cut and paste from someone else's ttter anyway.

[Vaud]

Tuna said:

Helicopter123 said:

We must all remain vigilant and resist any real or tacit threats of violence from so called 'yellow vest' types who seek to intimidate our elected representatives. That is one thing I'm sure we can all agree upon.

Also

Helicopter123 said:

One mans terrorist is another’s freedom fighter after all.

The words just come out of your mouth without the intervention of a single brain cell, don't they?

And with abuse like that, it is no surprise that NP&E is avoided by so many.

[Jessica_GTi]

Vaud said:

And with abuse like that, it is no surprise that NP&E is avoided by so many.

More of an observation than abuse?

Edited by Jessica_GTi on Sunday 20th January 15:12