How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

[chrispmartha]

Tuna said:

Piha said:

When one considers Dyson demanded the UK join the Euro, then why anyone thinks they actually have our country's best interests at heart is beyond me.

I'm not sure I've ever claimed Dyson has our interests at heart. Nice try though.

I'm not sure when Remainers will understand that large corporates do not actually give one stuff about the well being of the country they're in, or their workers beyond having a cheap and reliable source of labour. .

I understand and I'm a remainer, do you not understand that whether they give a stuff or not is irrelevant, whether what is good for the company is good for the UK is the relevant discussion.

[Robertj21a]

amusingduck said:

I think a lot of the blame can be apportioned to Helicopter123. If only he'd tried just that little bit harder to will a peoples vote into existance, it would have happened.

Oh well

Perhaps he should have asked mx5nut to support him.

[don'tbesilly]

Tuna said:

And in other news...

The People's Vote have officially announced they aren't going to table an amendment to get a People's Vote.

I'm sure the usual suspects will be along to tell us that support for the People's Vote hasn't fizzled out, and that they definitely do have lots of support for it in Parliament, and they certainly are going to save us all from Brexit any moment now.

Maybe watching George Osborne and Tony Blair (together at last!) broadcasting live from the expensive sunny slopes of Davos finally convinced people that the People's Vote definitely wasn't the liberal elite trying to tell them what to do.

I wonder if they arrived by private jet to discuss climate change the other day, it seems most people attending preferred that mode of transport:

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/201...

Attenborough must have been thrilled at such a large turnout.

Little people being told how to change the world by bigger people, seems quite apt when discussing Brexit.

[dasigty]

Elysium said:

Why have you concluded that they are trying to overturn their constituents vote? I know that the Express and other Brexit tabloids keep saying that, but very few MP's seem to have that motivation. Why assume that is their intent?

Most seem to be refusing to sign a 'bad deal' and trying to find a way to avoid no-deal in the face of an utterly uncooperative PM who is effectively refusing to renegotiate with the EU in any meaningful way.

The vote was to leave, there was never any leeway to "Remain in a little bit" as May`s deal would have, yet some MPs supported it. Others rally around having another vote, or just remaining, all of which is against the decision taken, one or more of those supported by many.

No deal IS the starting point, thats true in every negotiation that has ever been had in the history of the world, and NO even half competent negotiator has ever taken the option to walk away off the table.

Now its hold your nerve time, there is no question that it would damage both sides, but WE the voter gave the mandate to walk away unless the EU get off their high horse. The utter nonsense that has been banded about regarding the relative positions of the two sides is pure pro EU propaganda.

[steve_k]

bhstewie said:

@jsf do you know more about running Airbus than the Chief Executive of Airbus?

How utterly bizarre.

Some here think they know more about Dyson than James Dyson or is that somehow different?

[saaby93]

steve_k said:

bhstewie said:

@jsf do you know more about running Airbus than the Chief Executive of Airbus?

How utterly bizarre.

Some here think they know more about Dyson than James Dyson or is that somehow different?

Or that they know more about running a Government than Theresa May

[bitchstewie]

steve_k said:

bhstewie said:

@jsf do you know more about running Airbus than the Chief Executive of Airbus?

How utterly bizarre.

Some here think they know more about Dyson than James Dyson or is that somehow different?

I don't doubt for one minute that James Dyson knows what's best for James Dyson which is why he seems to be getting the hell out of Dodge.

[anonymous-user]

Pan Pan Pan said:

p1stonhead said:

Tuna said:

bhstewie said:

More positive news https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46984229

Airbus gets rolled out around every crunch point to helpfully suggest we do what's best for the EU. They thought we should join the Euro, thought we should vote Remain, think we should not go for 'no deal'.

Why anyone thinks they actually have our country's best interests at heart is beyond me.

They dont? They have their own and their workers interests at heart. Some are UK workers.

There are 800 000 UK nationals working in the EU, whereas 2.15 million EU nationals are working in the UK. A friends son was working for Airbus, and when there was the notion of a slight glitch in sales, he, plus some of his UK buddies were given the sack, so that they could hold onto less skilled but local workers What should the UK similarly do to show that it has UK workers interests at heart in this matter? It seems to be the case that the EU can do anything it likes to protect its workers interests, but it is not OK if the UK tries to do the same.

Interesting, I'd love to know when / where this was, in 10+ years I have never heard of any CORE staff member getting sacked other than for gross misconduct.

If they were flexible workforce / temp staff then sorry but they are there to be cut when there is a flex in demand.

[gizlaroc]

Airbus received €22b in State Aid from the EU countries to help build the A350 and A380.

Of course they don't want to leave the EU, they would not be here if it wasn't for the illegal money they receive from the EU.

[StevieBee]

gizlaroc said:

Airbus received €22b in State Aid from the EU countries to help build the A350 and A380.

Of course they don't want to leave the EU, they would not be here if it wasn't for the illegal money they receive from the EU.

How was it illegal?

[Tony427]

gizlaroc said:

Airbus received €22b in State Aid from the EU countries to help build the A350 and A380.

Of course they don't want to leave the EU, they would not be here if it wasn't for the illegal money they receive from the EU.

Also worth bearing in mind that the Airbus chief is leaving in April so may well be looking for his next opportunity .

[Tuna]

bhstewie said:

I don't doubt for one minute that James Dyson knows what's best for James Dyson which is why he seems to be getting the hell out of Dodge.

That would make sense if Dyson was moving production, or his design departments, or his investment in university programmes away from the UK, but he's not, is he? He's moving a total of two corporate executives and changing where a brass plaque is.

That's a very special definition of 'getting the hell out of Dodge'.

As an aside, do you know that Dyson is one of the UK's largest landowners, and has extensive (and profitable) farming interests? He's probably going to be more affected by changes to CAP than post-Brexit tariffs.

[chrispmartha]

gizlaroc said:

Airbus received €22b in State Aid from the EU countries to help build the A350 and A380.

Of course they don't want to leave the EU, they would not be here if it wasn't for the illegal money they receive from the EU.

Disregarding the illegal bit until you post proof

This is exactly the point Airbus will do what’s best for Airbus it just happens what Airbus is best for Airbus may not be the best for the UK

Edited by chrispmartha on Thursday 24th January 11:40

[gizlaroc]

StevieBee said:

How was it illegal?

It was discussed at length beginning of last year.

They are not allowed to give money to large corporations which gives and unfair advantage to other manufacturers.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44120525

It wasn't just the US firms complaining though, smaller builders felt it was not fair on them either.

Once again it is a case of the biggest companies on the planet getting the subsidies and the tax break at the expense of the little guy.
Long term that is not good for anyone, it is extremely short sighted.

[toppstuff]

Welshbeef said:

The A380 and A400 and the rampant success of the Dreamliner plus the new 747 replacement are smashing Airbus our of the park.

Welsh - congratulations on winning the prize of “Most incoherent , incorrect and confused post of the day” award.

[amusingduck]

I wish people would stop reducing incredibly complex scenarios into "what's best for the UK", as though there's one correct course of action.

[chrispmartha]

amusingduck said:

I wish people would stop reducing incredibly complex scenarios into "what's best for the UK", as though there's one correct course of action.

Personally I wish that such an incredibly complex thing as leaving the EU was put into a binary yes/no question onna ballot paper but That ship has sailed

[Digga]

amusingduck said:

I wish people would stop reducing incredibly complex scenarios into "what's best for the UK", as though there's one correct course of action.

Agreed. I also wish people would avoid correlating what any business says as being in the best interests of the country. Whether it's Airbus or Fatty Amal's Kebab & Off Licence, all business PR is done for commercial reasons first and foremost.

[crankedup]

Digga said:

Elysium said:

bhstewie said:

Airbus Chief Executive said:

Please don't listen to the Brexiteers' madness which asserts that, because we have huge plants here, we will not move and we will always be here. They are wrong.

But what does he know?

I agree with this:

Airbus said:

Mr Enders said it was a "disgrace" that businesses could still not plan for Brexit.

May's handling of Brexit is an omnishambles.

I do agree that for all businesses, of any size, which have any element of import/export integral to their working, it has been far from ideal. Airbus just has bigger, more influential PR than some bloke selling Chinese tat out of a small retail unit, but the aggregate effect on the economy, for all businesses is pronounced.

I'd like to go back to an earlier comment though, because I think it key:

crankedup said:

Balmoral said:

bhstewie said:

There is something really bloody depressing at how people want to keep harking back to WWII.

Agreed, along with all that guff about the old enemy, be it France or Germany.

Although it has its place and time that we are reminded of the past and that we learn those lessons. Which is why it is worrying to see the rise of the populist po.itical groups

In no way shape or form is the UK 'leaving' Europe. Ever. The economic and cultural successes of the UK and all other European nations are inextricably and mutually linked. It's no zero sum game. This is not WW2 all over again, any more than it's WW1 or even Waterloo. We have moved on.

Nonetheless, many in the UK, as well as a great many within the EU do feel that the EU is heading in the wrong direction on a number of key voter issues.

I have to reply to this comment, of course the U.K. is not leaving Europe, I think we all understand that much. My point is simple enough, look back at WW2 and the rise of political power in Germany of the Nazi Party under Hitlers directives. How he used dissatisfaction of the electrorate with the established politics.
I’m not saying Europe is heading for another war, but I am suggesting that mainstream politics
across Europe are being tested. We witness the rise of Far Right activists within Europe, political lessons need to be learnt from previous experiences. Saying we have moved on is akin to burying the head in the sand imo, plenty of political madmen are prising open the door
in an effort to take advantage of current dissatisfaction amongst populations.

[bitchstewie]

Tuna said:

That would make sense if Dyson was moving production, or his design departments, or his investment in university programmes away from the UK, but he's not, is he? He's moving a total of two corporate executives and changing where a brass plaque is.

That's a very special definition of 'getting the hell out of Dodge'.

As an aside, do you know that Dyson is one of the UK's largest landowners, and has extensive (and profitable) farming interests? He's probably going to be more affected by changes to CAP than post-Brexit tariffs.

And I hope they remain in the UK.

Moving HQ from the UK still doesn't strike me as the best piece of PR from someone who champions the Brexit cause.

There seems to be a slew of prominent Leave supporters who are saying one thing and doing another - do you ever wonder why?