How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)

[loafer123]

PurpleMoonlight said:

loafer123 said:

Why not? I am genuinely curious!

Because the EU can only discuss trade agreements with third countries, and the UK is not a third country until we leave the EU.

This was always known.

Yes, but it also has fiscal rules, and we all know they are made of toffee.

[don'tbesilly]

PurpleMoonlight said:

loafer123 said:

Why not? I am genuinely curious!

Because the EU can only discuss trade agreements with third countries, and the UK is not a third country until we leave the EU.

This was always known.

The UK can only do the same with other ROW countries, and that won't change until the EU say we can complete the discussions with other countries once they free us from the binding backstop.

May's deal to leave the EU in effect needs the permission of the EU to finally allow that to happen, taking back control shouldn't need the permission from the EU to make that occur, despite nonsense claims from some they won't allow that to happen.

For the reason above, amongst others May's deal will fail, it doesn't allow the UK to leave the EU of it's own volition.

May's deal in no way represents what May promised, it doesn't have the UK leaving the EU.

[ITP]

PurpleMoonlight said:

ITP said:

We cannot do trade deals without the interference of the EU. For example, we cannot set tariffs less than the EU charges.

You mean WTO tariffs?

Does that prohibit us effecting a FTA's with the RoW?

No, , not WTO, we cannot set tariffs with RoW that undercut the EU.

[Tony427]

don'tbesilly said:

alfie2244 said:

steve_k said:

Lets just be honest Brexit is going to be a stitch up, we wont be leaving well not in any meaningful way, the can will be kicked down the road.

The next few general elections will be quite interesting as new parties form and existing ones disappear.

Unfortunately I don't think you are far off the truth.

We can already see how this will turn out and it isn't going to do the country any good at all.

That entirely depends on whether you think that the decimation of existing political parties and the rise of a far right alternative garnering votes from disenfranchised Labour and Conservative voters is a good or a bad thing.

If the political classes really want to see how much damage can be done to the UK political lanscape by over 17 million voters, who feel betrayed by those who they entrusted with their decision, they are going about it in exactly the correct way.

Every constituency that voted to leave that has a sitting MP that refuses to carry out that decision will be in play in the next election. These MP's seats will be targetted remorslessly as they will be easy prey. The only MP's that can feel safe will be those in Remain voting seats and perhaps Lib Dems.

Labour, thanks to fence sitting and a disgraceful attitude of political opportunism when the country really needed grown up concensus politics, will be hardest hit. And thats before Momentum start imposing their loony left candidates on the population.

Peak Corbyn has passed, the young have seen through the sham, and every day that goes by simply exposes the intellectual poverty of the Labour front bench.

We, the general public, had better buckle up for a bumpy ride and a sequence of short lasting coalition governments.

It will be like Italy but without the sunshine.

Cheers,

Tony

[Dindoit]

ITP said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

ITP said:

We cannot do trade deals without the interference of the EU. For example, we cannot set tariffs less than the EU charges.

You mean WTO tariffs?

Does that prohibit us effecting a FTA's with the RoW?

No, , not WTO, we cannot set tariffs with RoW that undercut the EU.

Which lowered tariffs would you like to see?

[turbobloke]

Tony427 said:

don'tbesilly said:

alfie2244 said:

steve_k said:

Lets just be honest Brexit is going to be a stitch up, we wont be leaving well not in any meaningful way, the can will be kicked down the road.

The next few general elections will be quite interesting as new parties form and existing ones disappear.

Unfortunately I don't think you are far off the truth.

We can already see how this will turn out and it isn't going to do the country any good at all.

That entirely depends on whether you think that the decimation of existing political parties and the rise of a far right alternative garnering votes from disenfranchised Labour and Conservative voters is a good or a bad thing.

If the political classes really want to see how much damage can be done to the UK political lanscape by over 17 million voters, who feel betrayed by those who they entrusted with their decision, they are going about it in exactly the correct way.

Every constituency that voted to leave that has a sitting MP that refuses to carry out that decision will be in play in the next election. These MP's seats will be targetted remorslessly as they will be easy prey. The only MP's that can feel safe will be those in Remain voting seats and perhaps Lib Dems.

Labour, thanks to fence sitting and a disgraceful attitude of political opportunism when the country really needed grown up concensus politics, will be hardest hit. And thats before Momentum start imposing their loony left candidates on the population.

Peak Corbyn has passed, the young have seen through the sham, and every day that goes by simply exposes the intellectual poverty of the Labour front bench.

We, the general public, had better buckle up for a bumpy ride and a sequence of short lasting coalition governments.

It will be like Italy but without the sunshine.

Cheers,

Tony

Well said.

A coalition or two would be.,,,interesting.

[ITP]

Dindoit said:

ITP said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

ITP said:

We cannot do trade deals without the interference of the EU. For example, we cannot set tariffs less than the EU charges.

You mean WTO tariffs?

Does that prohibit us effecting a FTA's with the RoW?

No, , not WTO, we cannot set tariffs with RoW that undercut the EU.

Which lowered tariffs would you like to see?

The point being made is with Mays deal, the EU still has influence over our trade deals with the RoW. This is not leaving the EU.
Why should the EU have a say in our trade deals with, for example , the US, China or anyone, if we have ‘left’ the EU?

[davepoth]

PurpleMoonlight said:

davepoth said:

No, but the only trade deals we could cut would be those where tariffs or goods were not part of the discussion; that would limit the scope somewhat.

Where is the evidence for that please?

If we have a common external tariff (as in a customs union or the backstop), we can't have tariff rates that are different in any way to the EU, otherwise the UK would be a cheap back door into the EU. That means that we can't reduce our own tariffs as part of an FTA that we sign while in a customs union or the backstop.

https://blogs.sussex.ac.uk/uktpo/2018/03/29/what-c...

With NI part of the single market for goods under the backstop, any trade deal that was for the UK (as opposed to GB) would have to follow EU rules otherwise NI would be excluded from it. That means that unless the EU already had an FTA in place with that country there could be no mutual recognition of standards, which is how trade is facilitated in goods.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[davepoth]

PurpleMoonlight said:

davepoth said:

For who? the EU already has it (since it's their SM) and the UK does not get anything like full and unfettered access to the SM.

It does in the backstop does it not?

Only NI, and only for goods. I'll direct you to the AG's advice again.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

[frisbee]

The Dangerous Elk said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

May's deal is leaving the EU.

I trust you are therefore supporting it.

And that is exactly the remaining question, May's deal (well, the Eu's only offer) or No Deal. MP's need to decide now and it can be a planned one as well.

Brexit has never been a "Party" thing with the public.

Glad you have finally got there ~

Parliament will reject May's deal and they won't allow a no deal exit.

"oh but wait no deal is the default, they can't hold a vote in time and pass new legislation. etc. etc."

What's that up in the sky, is it a bird, is it a plane, no its Bercow.

I'll wait for you to catch up.

[Mrr T]

Tuna said:

Plus, as is regularly pointed out, the 'Dallas option' only works on bad TV Soaps. Even if we can rescind A50, things don't go back to how they were. Our contributions are set to double over the next decade as we loose the rebate, we've already lost over 25% of EU Grants and Funding that are not automatically restored by taking back A50, and in the last 2.5 years, the EU itself has changed politically. We cannot go back to how it was, and a second ref can't even promise that rescinding A50 would be accepted by the ECJ.

Project fear 1.2?

The ECJ would only get to consider the matter if the EU refered the matter to it.

[anonymous-user]

turbobloke said:

Greg66 said:

Scrump said:

Please keep the discussion away from personal insults.

Boooorrrring!!! Way to suck the fun out of the party.

Besides, how is it an insult when it’s true? He really *was* a

Lecturing a mod, best of luck with that

Good to see your literalism gene is still thriving, turbo.

[amusingduck]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Who is now unbanned?

[Derek Smith]

There wasn't much point in starting a new thread. The moderators should just have re-run the previous one a bit at a time.

[B'stard Child]

Scrump said:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Volume 6 lasted less than 6 weeks.
Please keep the discussion away from personal insults.

I shall commit right from the start that I will not use the expression F*xtr*tt O***r again having served my ban from this thread

Apologies to those who were offended and for the additional work caused to the moderators in cleaning up the thread

Thanks to those on both sides who enabled this thread to progress from 117 pages to 125 pages and consequently reduce the length of my Ban.

[B'stard Child]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Tuna said:

I don't think anyone voted for an incompetent government.

Be fair, all recent Governments have been incompetent so why would that change because of brexit.

Even BC had that on his list.

I did too

PurpleMoonlight said:

Who is now unbanned?

I've missed you

[Tuna]

Mrr T said:

Project fear 1.2?

The ECJ would only get to consider the matter if the EU refered the matter to it.

You think no party at all will challenge it? Where's Gina Miller this year? On holiday?

[alfie2244]

And I shall commit right from the start that I will not use the expression Q***ng again having served my ban from this thread

Apologies to those who were offended and for the additional work caused to the moderators in cleaning up the thread

Thanks to those on both sides who enabled this thread to progress from 116 pages to 125 pages and consequently reduce the length of my Ban.

[Tuna]

Dindoit said:

ITP said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

ITP said:

We cannot do trade deals without the interference of the EU. For example, we cannot set tariffs less than the EU charges.

You mean WTO tariffs?

Does that prohibit us effecting a FTA's with the RoW?

No, , not WTO, we cannot set tariffs with RoW that undercut the EU.

Which lowered tariffs would you like to see?

Um... surely the point of a trade agreement is that you might agree to lower some tariffs? If we can't do that, we can't negotiate trade agreements.

"Sorry, we can't take back control, the EU won't let us"

[B'stard Child]

gooner1 said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Welcome back.

Thank off.

Be nicer please