How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)
Discussion
Vaud said:
Camoradi said:
I found this an interesting watch on the subject of the EU. This programme focuses on the Euro crisis and Greece. The one thing which I noted about it was that the issue was, publicly at least. assessed by the EU as the profligacy of Greece, with no examination of the fundamental issues with the Euro
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002fgg
Includes an interesting piece on Alastair Darling's participation in the crucial summit and Obama's participation in a meeting at the G20
Does it cover Goldman Sach's questionable role in the original Euro entry for Greece? https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0002fgg
Includes an interesting piece on Alastair Darling's participation in the crucial summit and Obama's participation in a meeting at the G20
Mighty spot of bad luck for the Greeks that the EU were either too incompetent to spot that Greece's debt/defecit had magically disappeared, or that they simply didn't care about the entry criteria.
Also a mighty spot of bad luck that the EU were too incompetent, or simply didn't care that Greece was being allowed to rack up immense debts. Did the banks have to swallow the loss for their irresponsible lending? Of course not! We'll just say that the Greeks are a bunch of lazy workshy s
tmunchers, pat ourselves on the back for "bailing out Greece" and ignore the fact that 90-95% of that "aid" went straight back to the banks.It was a bank bailout.
dasigty said:
Greg66 said:
Do you think there is an international conspiracy of bankers?
The EU IS "The bankers", rather than play silly games of painting things as "A conspiracy", try looking at what did happen with Greece and those "Emergency Loans" forced on it. See who got the money, I will give you a clue, it was not Greece.The money that you receive from the less aggressive creditor goes - amazingly, I know - to repay your existing creditors.
As for Greece's emergency loans being "forced on it", well, perhaps you just need to stay off the anti EU/banker/globalist conspiracy Kool Aid. It's dissolving your brain. See, for example your inability to back up any of the rest of your ludicrously idiotic post.
dasigty said:
chrispmartha said:
Can you list the freedoms that the EU have taken away from you, can you list the Laws that you feel have impacted your life in a negative way and can you explain how the EU has taken freedom of speech away.
No mate, do your own research, it sounds like you badly need to educate yourself. Ah the irony.
As for the idea that people want "freedom" from the EU, I have yet to find one single person who can point to something they want to do, that the EU prevents them from doing.
toppstuff said:
He makes a good point though, dasigty. Don't you think its absurd that here you are, in a first world economy protected by rights for free speech, typing away on an internet forum that is not censored, claiming you do not have free speech?
Ah the irony.
As for the idea that people want "freedom" from the EU, I have yet to find one single person who can point to something they want to do, that the EU prevents them from doing.
Sell tariff free to my customers in the USA, make myself some filthy profit, pay a bit of tax, and improve the UK's balance of payments?Ah the irony.
As for the idea that people want "freedom" from the EU, I have yet to find one single person who can point to something they want to do, that the EU prevents them from doing.
pgh said:
toppstuff said:
As for the idea that people want "freedom" from the EU, I have yet to find one single person who can point to something they want to do, that the EU prevents them from doing.
Why does it have to be about freedom of the individual?I'm concerned with the freedom of my country to make its own rules. I want to elect, along with my fellow Britains, the people who rule over us. Pretty simple requests really.
PurpleMoonlight said:
SpeckledJim said:
Sell tariff free to my customers in the USA, make myself some filthy profit, pay a bit of tax, and improve the UK's balance of payments?
That has nothing to do with the EU, the USA impose the tariffs.Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA.
Because the French don't like English language TV shows. And assorted other stupidness from the 28 hagglers on the EU bus.
Vaud said:
Does it cover Goldman Sach's questionable role in the original Euro entry for Greece?
No, just the period from 2009 onwards. It went a little light on where the bailout money ended up too, but was more focussed on the internal machinations of EU summits. A rather revealing piece about Angela Merkel having to face up to the fact that Germany were going to pick up the tab, but I'll leave that for people to watchHelicopter123 said:
Norfolkit said:
chrispmartha said:
Ok fair enough, I’m glad you’ve had a good life (sincerely), but what I would say is you are saying that voting for staying in the EU is not voting for the status quo then what do you think voting to leave is for?, which do you think has the most uncertainty?
Many voters (including me) have known nothing else than being part of either the EEC or the EU so you have to understand that many of us don’t have the same hatred of being dragged into anything because the norm for ‘us’ is being in the EU, and this is probably why the younger votes went to remain, so having said that do you you accept or understand that some younger voters maybe a bit perplexed by the hatred some have of the EU?
I've no doubt voting to leave means more (in the short term anyway) uncertainty, we will be removing the "comfort blanket" (as some see it) of the EU. I get that but change brings opportunity, Planet Earth isn't the EU, it's a hell of a lot bigger than that. Many voters (including me) have known nothing else than being part of either the EEC or the EU so you have to understand that many of us don’t have the same hatred of being dragged into anything because the norm for ‘us’ is being in the EU, and this is probably why the younger votes went to remain, so having said that do you you accept or understand that some younger voters maybe a bit perplexed by the hatred some have of the EU?
My daughter lives in Australia, it's a wonderful country and not just in it's natural wonders either. People are well off materially and culturally, most people out there are happy (much happier than we are (OK I'll concede the weather helps but that's overlooking that most of the time it's trying to kill you, bush fires, droughts, cyclones etc.) and have good lives, last time I looked they weren't in the EU, they also have an almost universal distrust of all politicians, in Europe we seem to regard EU politicians as some sort of super elite, they're not, they're no better than you or me.
It seems to me that over the years we've ceeded our soul to the EU in some sort of weird "they know best" cult, I know people who simply cannot conceive of life outside the EU, they think the world will end if we leave, it won't.
Is the EU evil, no of course it isn't, is it holding most countries in Europe back, yes I think it is, over regulated, overly expensive, yes.
Do i hate Europe, no, I think it's probably the most civilised part of planet Earth, not many parts of it I've not visited and I'd quite happily visit all of it again.
I don't hate the EU either, I just think we'd be a better country out of it, it's been a divisive issue in this country since Ted Heath started talking about taking us in, that's almost 50 years ago.
So before the usual racist/old/gammon mob turn up, I voted remain in 1975, I voted leave in 2016 but that means I've voted remain as many times as most people who voted remain in 2016, so I did give it a go.
The old bit I'd struggle with being 65, as for being racist, well I married the the daughter of a Polish immigrant 45 years ago, so if I'm racist I'm not very good at it. For what it's worth I'd keep freedom of movement, I think that's been the best thing about the EU.
Was the UK wealthier before we joined the EEC, no, but were the USA/New Zealand/Australia wealthier in 1975 than they are today?
Was the UK a happier, less divided country in 1975, yes, definitely, there again I was 21 when we joined the EEC maybe I was just having more sex, who knows.
Edited by Norfolkit on Friday 8th February 01:47
If you so keen on FOM, why deny it to others?
You can’t appear to make any rational case for leaving.
k do you know I "clearly benefitted from EU membership", you know nothing about me.I made my case for leaving the EU, mine alone, whether it's rational to you or anyone else is for you or them to decide.
It was my vote, I didn't need your permission to vote the way I did
SpeckledJim said:
Go one level deeper:
Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA.
Because the French don't like English language TV shows. And assorted other stupidness from the 28 hagglers on the EU bus.
I fear you will be eating your words when the UK tries get an FTA with the US. We'll be bent over and given a spanking - I suspect some of our industries will be thrown under the bus and decimated by US imports in exchange for getting an FTA with our "special friends". Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA.
Because the French don't like English language TV shows. And assorted other stupidness from the 28 hagglers on the EU bus.
SpeckledJim said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
SpeckledJim said:
Sell tariff free to my customers in the USA, make myself some filthy profit, pay a bit of tax, and improve the UK's balance of payments?
That has nothing to do with the EU, the USA impose the tariffs.Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA. .
toppstuff said:
SpeckledJim said:
Go one level deeper:
Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA.
Because the French don't like English language TV shows. And assorted other stupidness from the 28 hagglers on the EU bus.
I fear you will be eating your words when the UK tries get an FTA with the US. We'll be bent over and given a spanking - I suspect some of our industries will be thrown under the bus and decimated by US imports in exchange for getting an FTA with our "special friends". Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA.
Because the French don't like English language TV shows. And assorted other stupidness from the 28 hagglers on the EU bus.
chrispmartha said:
SpeckledJim said:
PurpleMoonlight said:
SpeckledJim said:
Sell tariff free to my customers in the USA, make myself some filthy profit, pay a bit of tax, and improve the UK's balance of payments?
That has nothing to do with the EU, the USA impose the tariffs.Why do the USA impose the tariffs?
Because the EU and USA weren't able to agree an FTA. .
Turn it whichever way up you like, the reason we don't, today, have an FTA with the USA is our membership of the EU.
Maybe next year it won't be the EU but there will be a different reason, or maybe we'll have one.
toppstuff said:
What is your top 10 of the rules you would want to change?
My top 6 (in no particular order,and they're quite enough to be getting on with):- Replace CAP with an effective countryside management (including woodland, health land and wetlands) strategy and where necessary subsidy scheme.
- Remove WEEE administration burdens and charges.
- Adjust our inward tariff regime to align closer to our needs as consumers and industry.
- Develop a skills and needs based immigration policy applied to nationals from everywhere.
- Apply stimulus reductions in Corp Tax and VAT.
- Develop and implement a customs processing system and processes that permit all goods shipments to have AEO principles applied to them.
pgh said:
You're trying to re-run the referendum again. Give it up.
No not at all. We are leaving.I'm just fascinated about peoples expectations and how they somehow think life will be better from April onwards.
I am fascinated how some people look at our own political classes and see these same people as the key to our futures.
And I am fascinated how people latch on to negativity toward the EU over nebulous concepts of "freedom" , but struggle to actually think of anything they are missing / lacking / unable to do at the moment while inside the EU.
I cannot help but think there is going to be a huge case of buyers remorse in a few years time, when people wake up and realise their lives have not improved a single bit and the Government ( whoever they are ) still isn't listening or giving a crap about them. People will realise that leaving the EU achieved absolutely nothing. And thats before we factor in the inevitable pain that some people are going to feel.
toppstuff said:
I fear you will be eating your words when the UK tries get an FTA with the US. We'll be bent over and given a spanking - I suspect some of our industries will be thrown under the bus and decimated by US imports in exchange for getting an FTA with our "special friends".
Why do you feel that this would occur under a FTA with the US, but that it hasn't occurred under a trade deal with "The largest trading bloc in the world"? Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff