Europe heading into recession
Discussion
I’m currently doing a house up on the west coast of Ireland
I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
Earthdweller said:
I’m currently doing a house up on the west coast of Ireland
I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
Just like Greece then. Prepare to be slagged off when the downturn comes.I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
skwdenyer said:
YankeePorker said:
egomeister said:
I don't want to live in a world where there is an audit trail for every single transaction a person makes. If some tax evasion is the price of that, so be it.
Agree with you. As I said before, I use cash as much as possible to help it “live”. My one regret is that I wish that retailers would openly give discounts for cash payments, as they avoid the Amex/Visa/MC charges. No doubt they would be sanctioned by the card companies if they did, a cartel defending its interests.
(2) any legitimate business spends at least as much as the card fee in cash handling
I think a small black economy is actually healthy in so far as it provides an alternative to the regular economy and heavy taxation; Government's take the pi55 and they lose their tax base. IMO it's incredibly naive to imagine that if governments were able to eliminate the competition (aka the black economy) that tax on the rest of us would go down! Same goes for the EU's opposition to tax regimes like Ireland's; they are competition to the high tax countries. Anyone who thinks the likes of Pierre Moscovici EU Tax Commissioner, French Socialist Party and ex-Revolutionary Communist League (you couldn't make it up), want tax harmonisation in order to tax everyone less, needs their head examining.
German GDP, not looking particularly healthy, net exports adding some real drag now. Not great considering Trump “might” be pushing an escalation in the trade war AND then threatening to go after Europe which he says is worse than China. G7 was a bit of a car crash – for everyone involved.
- Trump threatens to escalate, tells US companies to shop at home and asks the Russians back (upsetting everyone else).
- Merkel is on her knees begging for a trade deal (and fighting her finance ministry on fiscal spend – they seem to be falling back on full employment figures like every other Govt recently – bit of a shame if these are cooked).
-Macron invites the Iranians
-And Boris, was Boris. Will be interesting to see if the Boris / Trump love-in is a resurgence of Anglo Saxon trade think; or Trump using it as leverage on an EU/US trade deal.
-Head of the Bundesbank gave an interview at the weekend, warning against additional monetary stimulus from the ECB. Says its action, for actions sake. I expect jaws dropped elsewhere in the EU, with treasuries in France, Spain and Italy having a touching cloth moment.
With the world’s largest economies at total loggerheads (and dragging the biggest in Europe down), a growing fiscal/monetary crisis in the EU; the only thing that might give some relief would be to do a deal on BREXIT (at least locally) – or do the FTA in the next 2 weeks . It takes some pressure of the whole UK/EU – and really is – the easiest problem to resolve.
Well, it should be – if we had the right people to do it. I spoke to someone at the Foreign Office at the weekend – and no one has a Scooby what to do re BREXIT and RoW. It’s possibly similar in the EU; where they could be reading anti-BREXIT sentiment in the UK (and ability to do anything about it) with a bit of rose tinted glasses / confirmation bias. They should probably fire the lot of em, and bring in a commercial transition management team from Blackrock or something. It looks more and more like the Global economy is being sold down the river by mediocre civil servants and politicians whom are failed business people / too old for love island (in Trump's case being too rapey).
The last paragraph is hyperbole (before anyone gets too upset). Sortof.
steveT350C said:
On expected results, yep. Most of the DAX and Stoxx50 is profit warning central. Norges are a mercenary bunch, won"t invest in renewables - you gotta love em for calling it as it is. The problem is, where else to stick the money. 16tr of neg yielding debt and MP calling in inflation at 2% is a s
t position. Maybe they should stick in a bid for Greenland. looks like i found what i was looking for, quarterly GDP percentage change by EU member state:
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=tab...
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/table.do?tab=tab...
Vanden Saab said:
skwdenyer said:
YankeePorker said:
egomeister said:
I don't want to live in a world where there is an audit trail for every single transaction a person makes. If some tax evasion is the price of that, so be it.
Agree with you. As I said before, I use cash as much as possible to help it “live”. My one regret is that I wish that retailers would openly give discounts for cash payments, as they avoid the Amex/Visa/MC charges. No doubt they would be sanctioned by the card companies if they did, a cartel defending its interests.
(2) any legitimate business spends at least as much as the card fee in cash handling
For a start, cash has to be carefully accounted-for, in considerable detail, if one is too avoid problems with an HMRC investigation. If one wishes to have much business credit, cash must be banked. If one wishes to pay suppliers, cash must often be banked. Cash must be insured, it must be counted. It is wide open to employee theft, to fraud, to counterfeiting, and so on. All of that costs time (which is money) and/or handling fees at the bank.
By comparison, cards cost considerably less than 1% to process, and avoid the vast majority of those problems.
I have never been able to construct a legitimate case for cash; its only benefit in modern business lies in the ability to under-account for it...
Earthdweller said:
I’m currently doing a house up on the west coast of Ireland
I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
Remind me to ask you for a large percentage of health care costs to make up for the tax you're deliberately engaged in avoiding. I don't often say this, but I'm basically appalled.I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
Gecko1978 said:
the state does need funds to run but when the state sees your money as it's own then we have a problem. We live to better our own lives as individuals which as a dividend makes the world better I.e. we choose to be economically active spend money on a wide range of things we want allowing business to flourish an wealth to be created.
The state has no such desire only to control and while in some aspects thst is great (education by controlling what a GCSE is etc, licencing doctors and defence) in other cases it gets it wrong. Promotion of multi cultural ideas and pc values (not letting people just be kind to every one they meet etc), global warming alarmism, yes we should use all resources more efficiently but when it's driven by tax an banning things an not subsidising better options (public transport is not that option).
There is a balance to be had but when it comes to money you earn then really the state should look to extract the minimum at source an make tax more consumption based.
IMHO bThe state has no such desire only to control and while in some aspects thst is great (education by controlling what a GCSE is etc, licencing doctors and defence) in other cases it gets it wrong. Promotion of multi cultural ideas and pc values (not letting people just be kind to every one they meet etc), global warming alarmism, yes we should use all resources more efficiently but when it's driven by tax an banning things an not subsidising better options (public transport is not that option).
There is a balance to be had but when it comes to money you earn then really the state should look to extract the minimum at source an make tax more consumption based.
ks. Tax should be maximised at source, and consumption taxes abolished. IMHO. Consumption taxes are absolutely regressive, and contribute to the widening gap between rich and poor.Which tends to be why the well-off support them
YankeePorker said:
skwdenyer said:
(2) any legitimate business spends at least as much as the card fee in cash handling
Fair comment, I suppose the emphasis has to be on the “legitimate” bit! I know a few cafes here in Miami that operate their businesses on a cash only basis - if dealing in cash cost them the same as paying 5% to Amex on each transaction surely they would taking card payments? Anyway, this is a thread digression.skwdenyer said:
Earthdweller said:
I’m currently doing a house up on the west coast of Ireland
I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
Remind me to ask you for a large percentage of health care costs to make up for the tax you're deliberately engaged in avoiding. I don't often say this, but I'm basically appalled.I have to make frequent trips to the bank to get cash to pay the trades/suppliers
It is clear there are two prices .. the bank staff laughs when I go in and say “what’s it for this time ? “
It’s just accepted and completely normal here
When VAT is charged at 23% I happy to take the lower quoted price
I NEED the work doing, I’m paying the full amount in the way the tradesmen are asking to be paid .. if I don’t pay them cash I don’t get the work done
What they tell the taxman here about their earning is not my concern
I’ve paid tax on all my money
It’s very cash based here, it’s pretty remote,very rural very farming based and probably not that different from other similar areas in remote areas
It would suit me to pay by card or bank transfer .. it’s much easier for me ... it’s a 50 mile trip to the bank branch rather than a few clicks on a computer keyboard
skwdenyer said:
YankeePorker said:
skwdenyer said:
(2) any legitimate business spends at least as much as the card fee in cash handling
Fair comment, I suppose the emphasis has to be on the “legitimate” bit! I know a few cafes here in Miami that operate their businesses on a cash only basis - if dealing in cash cost them the same as paying 5% to Amex on each transaction surely they would taking card payments? Anyway, this is a thread digression.sugerbear said:
skwdenyer said:
YankeePorker said:
skwdenyer said:
(2) any legitimate business spends at least as much as the card fee in cash handling
Fair comment, I suppose the emphasis has to be on the “legitimate” bit! I know a few cafes here in Miami that operate their businesses on a cash only basis - if dealing in cash cost them the same as paying 5% to Amex on each transaction surely they would taking card payments? Anyway, this is a thread digression.Land of the free?!
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