Gillette get political...

[Boydie88]

WCZ said:

it's not even worth it, I dread to think of the reply.

also even though the 'conversation' had ended she obviously couldn't resist putting one last thing out there:

"The number of guys I’ve fking shut down because of their dumb st misogynist opinions

shutting down guys like you is my life blood and hobby"

all this just because I said women can be offended by other things other than rape and murder.

The absolute state of people that Twitter has caused.

[InitialDave]

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the term "pigeon chess".

Also "mansplaining" is one of those terms that readily identifies those wielding it as a waste of space.

[Boydie88]

InitialDave said:

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the term "pigeon chess".

Also "mansplaining" is one of those terms that readily identifies those wielding it as a waste of space.

I took a guess at it's meaning and was pretty close but the origin story is great and fits in so well with Twitter.

"Origin:
"Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon; it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory." -- Scott D. Weitzenhoffer (From an Amazon.com book review)"

[anonymous-user]

amusingduck said:

The narrator says, right after the MeToo stuff and the men behaving badly:

To say the right thing, to act the right way, some already are. He emphasises "some".

How does that imply that some men can be dicks? Doesn't that imply the opposite - that some men aren't dicks?

Exactly this. The wording is carefully chosen to illicit a reaction whilst remaining factually defensible; some men behave appropriately; some women aren't wes; some [Mexicans] are good people. Those who have fallen for the brand positioning (that is the false dilemma of either liking the brand or being a creepy uncool sex pest) ask what's wrong with the message ''hey men, don't be a dlcks''. Nothing I guess, some of us obviously are, but the medium is targeted at us as individuals. It's like the guy who I buy my groceries off knocking on my door and telling me not to be a d1ck. Well he can just f*** off, as can Gillette. Job done though right? Probably going to be P&G's most successful ad of the year, with only another $7bn of advertising spend left to go...

[anonymous-user]

InitialDave said:

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the term "pigeon chess".

[IanH755]

"Be a better man" is a lovely sentiment with which I have no issue, but my problem with the advert isn't the message, it's this - where is the diversity? There are 8 situations where a white male is shown to have/use "toxic masculinity" -

Bullying at start - White Man
Wolf Whistle Cartoon - White Man
Bum Grab on TV - White Man
Bum Grab being filmed while people laugh - White Man & White Men in Audience
Boss in meeting - White Man
All the dozen+ BBQ men - White Man
Man at Swimming Pool - White Man
Man at Coffee Shop - White Man

and just a single lonely one where a man of ANY OTHER COLOUR man is shown displaying it, the black guy during the BBQ section. So all 8 out of 8 scenes show white males as having "toxic masculinity" with a single shared scene for a minority.

Now if we look at who the "good" men are who step into either resolve these situations or give a positive message -

Terry Crews in Congress - Black Man
Man giving daughter positive message - Black Man
Man at Swimming Pool - Black Man
Man at Coffee Shop - Black Man
2 black kids fighting - Black Man
BBQ Men - White Man
Bullying - White Man

Ah, there seems to be a theme developing when it's framed as "who are the good guys" and that theme is looking very much like "white men = mostly bad" and "black men = mostly good" solely based on the number of situations shown in the advert. So I ask again, where's the diversity? Where's the Asian, Middle Eastern or Latino men, why are they immune to being shown as either toxic or good?

As a white man all I ask for is the very thing that people are begging for everywhere else - Diversity - are there clips of white men giving their daughters a positive message? Yeap - are there situations where a Middle Eastern/Asian/Latino man could be shown to have toxic masculinity? Yeap - yet all this advert shows me, based on the situations as they are shown, is that Toxic Masculinity is overwhelmingly a white man problem and that other races either don't suffer it at all (they aren't shown) or that they are the example to follow.

Thats my issue with this advert.

Edited by IanH755 on Thursday 17th January 19:43

[V1nce Fox]

... I got here as quick as I could.


I've been asked about this fking thing three times today separately (job hazard).

The results are in: "They'll get no help with their advertising from me, love".

[V1nce Fox]

Also, pigeon chess is a brilliant saying which I will use tomorrow as though I've always known it.

I will use it to talk about Animaniacs.

[WCZ]

InitialDave said:

I suggest you familiarise yourself with the term "pigeon chess".

Also "mansplaining" is one of those terms that readily identifies those wielding it as a waste of space.

haha, nice term

what would I know anyway - "Men have the privilege to be threatened by trivial things whereas women don't"

[urquattroGus]

May have been posted, but a rebuttal/analysis of the ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSeNu9cbpV0

[Cbull]

urquattroGus said:

May have been posted, but a rebuttal/analysis of the ad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSeNu9cbpV0

Yeah good video that is. In fact all his videos are good.

Looking at all the scenarios, most or all of them rightly or wrongly have a point with the exception of 1. I honestly don't see what the issue is. The one where the guy sees the 2 nice ladies walk past, he goes to chat them up but the other guy interrupts him and says not cool bro. Am I missing something with that one?

[andy_s]

wsurfa said:

Is this the study where they confused 2 different data sets and had to issue a correction, whilst denying it affected the conclusions?

Talking of studies, here's a good skit: https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/h...

TL:DR - couple of guys made up suitably esoteric SJW type academic papers (using things like Mein Kampf but replacing 'jews' with 'men' in one accepted paper: "Our Struggle Is My Struggle: Solidarity Feminism as an Intersectional Reply to Neoliberal and Choice Feminism.") and got 4 accepted and 3 considered out of about 20 papers all of which were complete bks. [the dog humping one was good )

Edited by andy_s on Sunday 20th January 10:05

[andy_s]

IanH755 said:

"Be a better man" is a lovely sentiment with which I have no issue, but my problem with the advert isn't the message, it's this - where is the diversity? There are 8 situations where a white male is shown to have/use "toxic masculinity" -

Bullying at start - White Man
Wolf Whistle Cartoon - White Man
Bum Grab on TV - White Man
Bum Grab being filmed while people laugh - White Man & White Men in Audience
Boss in meeting - White Man
All the dozen+ BBQ men - White Man
Man at Swimming Pool - White Man
Man at Coffee Shop - White Man

and just a single lonely one where a man of ANY OTHER COLOUR man is shown displaying it, the black guy during the BBQ section. So all 8 out of 8 scenes show white males as having "toxic masculinity" with a single shared scene for a minority.

Now if we look at who the "good" men are who step into either resolve these situations or give a positive message -

Terry Crews in Congress - Black Man
Man giving daughter positive message - Black Man
Man at Swimming Pool - Black Man
Man at Coffee Shop - Black Man
2 black kids fighting - Black Man
BBQ Men - White Man
Bullying - White Man

Ah, there seems to be a theme developing when it's framed as "who are the good guys" and that theme is looking very much like "white men = mostly bad" and "black men = mostly good" solely based on the number of situations shown in the advert. So I ask again, where's the diversity? Where's the Asian, Middle Eastern or Latino men, why are they immune to being shown as either toxic or good?

As a white man all I ask for is the very thing that people are begging for everywhere else - Diversity - are there clips of white men giving their daughters a positive message? Yeap - are there situations where a Middle Eastern/Asian/Latino man could be shown to have toxic masculinity? Yeap - yet all this advert shows me, based on the situations as they are shown, is that Toxic Masculinity is overwhelmingly a white man problem and that other races either don't suffer it at all (they aren't shown) or that they are the example to follow.

Thats my issue with this advert.

Edited by IanH755 on Thursday 17th January 19:43

Nice one Ian, hadn't spotted that, but then I'm not a wacist as you obviously are as you deny Black men the chance to be good and find it unusual that white men are bad...

[*tongue in cheek emoji here*]

I saw it and thought it patronising and mildly irritating - partly because of the constant drip of the bloody tap on these sorts of issues.

[Spanna]

WCZ said:

j_4m said:

Why did you even bother? She only posted that to get a rise out of someone and feel smug.

trust me she believes it

it's most likely ended at:

"you saying that I'm being dramatic is both irresponsible and ignorant. And plain RUDE. And btw, I don’t appreciate my own tweet being mansplained to me. Your own argument is shaky at best, befuddled and offensive, at worst. Thank you. Good day."

can't help but wonder what things will be like in 10/15 years time?

You needn’t worry, the kids will rebel and mostly shun this PC st. Can you imagine being 16 right now and seeing young adults spouting drivel at you about what you can and can’t say? Pfffft fk off you old s. Every generation has it’s rebellion and this will be Gen Z’s.

[andy_s]

Now I know it could be a bit selective here, but all the same....

https://youtu.be/xsYKb3T13Wk - 'Students Hate Toxic Masculinity... But Can't Define What It Is?'


TL:DR -

"Do you believe toxic masculinity is a problem?"
"Yes"
"How would you define toxic masculinity in your own words?"
".... That's a tough question"

[The Dangerous Elk]

andy_s said:

Now I know it could be a bit selective here, but all the same....

https://youtu.be/xsYKb3T13Wk - 'Students Hate Toxic Masculinity... But Can't Define What It Is?'


TL:DR -

"Do you believe toxic masculinity is a problem?"
"Yes"
"How would you define toxic masculinity in your own words?"
".... That's a tough question"?

Dig beneath the PC/Liberal crap topping the "subject" and it shows what total bks is in their brains.

Darling little QuornBrains....Stop thinking about meaningless crap and LEARN.

[rambo19]

andy_s said:

Now I know it could be a bit selective here, but all the same....

https://youtu.be/xsYKb3T13Wk - 'Students Hate Toxic Masculinity... But Can't Define What It Is?'


TL:DR -

"Do you believe toxic masculinity is a problem?"
"Yes"
"How would you define toxic masculinity in your own words?"
".... That's a tough question"?

Interviewer has a great arse and thighs....................................

[Salmonofdoubt]

Is toxic masculinity not snowflake speak for being a prick?

[andy_s]

Salmonofdoubt said:

Is toxic masculinity not snowflake speak for being a prick?

In a nutshell; or more specifically those male traits which when unfettered lead to violence or abuse of some kind - you know, the same as toxic femininity. The weaselly interpretation is that it's those components of masculinity that mean men themselves get chewed u with - not displaying emotion, not speaking about depression etc.

Now of course once you have the vague catchphrase established in the lexicon you can alter the threshold of what is deemed 'toxic' according to your mores; the problem being who decides where that is and where it ends...

[wisbech]

IanH755 said:

"Be a better man" is a lovely sentiment with which I have no issue, but my problem with the advert isn't the message, it's this - where is the diversity? There are 8 situations where a white male is shown to have/use "toxic masculinity" -

Bullying at start - White Man
Wolf Whistle Cartoon - White Man
Bum Grab on TV - White Man
Bum Grab being filmed while people laugh - White Man & White Men in Audience
Boss in meeting - White Man
All the dozen+ BBQ men - White Man
Man at Swimming Pool - White Man
Man at Coffee Shop - White Man

and just a single lonely one where a man of ANY OTHER COLOUR man is shown displaying it, the black guy during the BBQ section. So all 8 out of 8 scenes show white males as having "toxic masculinity" with a single shared scene for a minority.

Now if we look at who the "good" men are who step into either resolve these situations or give a positive message -

Terry Crews in Congress - Black Man
Man giving daughter positive message - Black Man
Man at Swimming Pool - Black Man
Man at Coffee Shop - Black Man
2 black kids fighting - Black Man
BBQ Men - White Man
Bullying - White Man

Ah, there seems to be a theme developing when it's framed as "who are the good guys" and that theme is looking very much like "white men = mostly bad" and "black men = mostly good" solely based on the number of situations shown in the advert. So I ask again, where's the diversity? Where's the Asian, Middle Eastern or Latino men, why are they immune to being shown as either toxic or good?

As a white man all I ask for is the very thing that people are begging for everywhere else - Diversity - are there clips of white men giving their daughters a positive message? Yeap - are there situations where a Middle Eastern/Asian/Latino man could be shown to have toxic masculinity? Yeap - yet all this advert shows me, based on the situations as they are shown, is that Toxic Masculinity is overwhelmingly a white man problem and that other races either don't suffer it at all (they aren't shown) or that they are the example to follow.

Thats my issue with this advert.

Edited by IanH755 on Thursday 17th January 19:43

Even worse they all have American accents - where is the diversity in that?