Was Hitler really right wing?
Discussion
fido said:
It's a circular argument - are right-wing groups really right-wing? I think most people would agree the BNP is far right. However many people would disagree that UKIP or EDL are right-wing. LEFT-RIGHT is a narrow definition that first many cases, but as the political chart shows it's just one particular axis of the political universe. Back to the question - was Hitler right-wing? No, he is far-right.
You think EDL aren't right-wing? You need to look at their roots......The terms "Left wing" and "right wing" originally referred to where you sat in physically relation to the King (in France)
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/26029/...
It can mean "economic policy basis", by which standard Hitler was a centrist - somewhere to the left of Blair's Labour. But of course at the time Hitler was being compared to the Communists who were full on "steal everything from everyone" left, so anyone else would have appeared economically right wing.
But mostly "right wing" is used as an insult by the left and the "liberals" to mean anyone other than themselves. It's around the intellectual level of "ORANGE MAN BAD" and no-one is going to be reclaiming either phrase any time soon.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/26029/...
It can mean "economic policy basis", by which standard Hitler was a centrist - somewhere to the left of Blair's Labour. But of course at the time Hitler was being compared to the Communists who were full on "steal everything from everyone" left, so anyone else would have appeared economically right wing.
But mostly "right wing" is used as an insult by the left and the "liberals" to mean anyone other than themselves. It's around the intellectual level of "ORANGE MAN BAD" and no-one is going to be reclaiming either phrase any time soon.
It is rather a silly question from the OP.
Right wing is a grouping. It does not necessarily mean that it is an extension of the right. Nothing in politics is linear.
The point is that racist parties fall into the right wing because that's what right wing includes.
Take Ozzy Mosley. He was supported by both the upper class (he was a baronet, married to a Guinness heiress, one of the deplorable Mitford mob) and the working class, although the communist party (left wing) were against all his policies. Indeed, they entered into pitched battles on the streets to try and counter his ambitions.
Hitler spouted mostly the same mantra, although it differed in detail. Communists were dumped into the labour [concentration] camps so it seems that he fell some way from the left wing of politics. He also was afraid of Stalin's communism and it was his ambition to rid the world of such people. Many of the Russian PoW died due to their incarceration and being forced to work in dreadful conditions.
Socialism was in the title of his party but that means nothing other than that's what it was called. I'm unaware of any of his policies being identical to Marxism. There was common ground on them both being totalitarian, but then that means little.
You could have a list of tick boxes which puts a totalitarian state into either the left wing or right wing - let's not be pathetic enough to suggest the name has anything to do with it. It is unlikely that any such state gets ticks in all boxes.
Racist terminology and beliefs would be one of the boxes for right wing but to suggest that no extremist left wing government or party is not racist is obviously nonsense. It's a balance.
The term right wing was used to define the type of party, and beliefs, of Hitler and Mosley. You can suggest that there should be a different name, but isn't that just a little snowflakish?
The trick is not to assume that ultra right wing politics casts a shadow over parties to the right of centre. I'm a lefty liberal according to some on here and feel no way diminished, nor should I be demonised, because of Stalin or Chavez.
Right wing is a grouping. It does not necessarily mean that it is an extension of the right. Nothing in politics is linear.
The point is that racist parties fall into the right wing because that's what right wing includes.
Take Ozzy Mosley. He was supported by both the upper class (he was a baronet, married to a Guinness heiress, one of the deplorable Mitford mob) and the working class, although the communist party (left wing) were against all his policies. Indeed, they entered into pitched battles on the streets to try and counter his ambitions.
Hitler spouted mostly the same mantra, although it differed in detail. Communists were dumped into the labour [concentration] camps so it seems that he fell some way from the left wing of politics. He also was afraid of Stalin's communism and it was his ambition to rid the world of such people. Many of the Russian PoW died due to their incarceration and being forced to work in dreadful conditions.
Socialism was in the title of his party but that means nothing other than that's what it was called. I'm unaware of any of his policies being identical to Marxism. There was common ground on them both being totalitarian, but then that means little.
You could have a list of tick boxes which puts a totalitarian state into either the left wing or right wing - let's not be pathetic enough to suggest the name has anything to do with it. It is unlikely that any such state gets ticks in all boxes.
Racist terminology and beliefs would be one of the boxes for right wing but to suggest that no extremist left wing government or party is not racist is obviously nonsense. It's a balance.
The term right wing was used to define the type of party, and beliefs, of Hitler and Mosley. You can suggest that there should be a different name, but isn't that just a little snowflakish?
The trick is not to assume that ultra right wing politics casts a shadow over parties to the right of centre. I'm a lefty liberal according to some on here and feel no way diminished, nor should I be demonised, because of Stalin or Chavez.
Derek Smith said:
Many of the Russian PoW died due to their incarceration and being forced to work in dreadful conditions.
Those poor devils; Stalin viewed PoWs as traitors for being caught [even those who had no legs], so when incarcerated there was no Red Cross parcels or support of any kind - the Russian soldiers were at the mercy of pauce German generosity. Things then got worse. When repatriated they were immediately sent to the Gulags or shot for their troubles. Us Brits even tricked the Cossacks [who had worked with the allies throughout] into being given up to the Russians despite their protestations as they already knew their fate, but we had to deal with Uncle Joe at that stage.
Grim.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'm usially about there and like to do this every election to keep track of myself. I feel like I've become more right wing over the past couple of years, but doing this again pops me out the most lefty-libertarian I think I've seen.
Also interesting to compare the anti left-wing, "libtard" stuff you get from the US with their two choices of presidential candidates.
fido said:
Countdown said:
You think EDL aren't right-wing? You need to look at their roots......
Oh sorry, yep keep confusing them with the UAF and anti-Semitism .. who are supposedly on the left.grumbledoak said:
But mostly "right wing" is used as an insult by the left and the "liberals" to mean anyone other than themselves. It's around the intellectual level of "ORANGE MAN BAD" and no-one is going to be reclaiming either phrase any time soon.
'leftie' and 'liberal' (even more bizarrely) is regularly used on PH as a pejorative.I appreciate the thread title is about Hitler but does that reflect the discussion that inspired the thread? Nowadays, is it not the case that "right-wing" economic viewpoints are more commonly combined with nationalistic views and concerns about immigration than those from the "left-wing" are? And if this really is about Hitler, isn't that what we remember him for?
The left have hammered home the 'right wing' label on Hitler for a few decades, quite probably to disassociate their beloved left wing idology from his horrific nature. However, Hitler and the NAZIs exhibited behaviours common to all far left bodies, from their propaganda, divide and rule tactics, shouting down, sneering at and intimidating opposing voices, all tactics with which we may be familiar right now. They called themselves National Socialists and, despite disliking communists, the NAZIs were really just a different flavour of the authoritarian left.
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