Was Hitler really right wing?

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Discussion

andy_s

13,999 posts

197 months

Wednesday 23rd January
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Very nice JCF, and I agree with your hierarchy.

Perhaps apposite:

“The surest way to work up a crusade in favor of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behavior 'righteous indignation' — this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats.”

Aldous Huxley, Crome Yellow

BrassMan

1,202 posts

127 months

Thursday 24th January
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Dindoit said:
Randy Winkman said:
Would PHers like to tell me if they think that Hitler is primarily remembered for his parties economic policies or because of his fascism, racism, nationalism, war-mongering and persecution of minorities?
It’s genuinely hilarious watching them stumble over themselves to paint Hitler as a liberal leftie and whitewash his systematic extermination of millions.

At the same time it’s mildly terrifying when someone tells you to “read a book” because of course Hitler was only doing what everyone else at the time was thinking.

We’re a couple of posts away from HITLER DID NOTHING WRONG.
By this stage, Hitler is getting close to being a mythical figure.Yes, his life and works are well recorded, but he's used as an archetype of the mass murdering dictator and demagogue. As such, his name is a good thing to shout at The Enemy, but is getting close to meaning "ignore this idiot."

ps, whenever anyone on here states that the poor and stupid are out breeding the rich and intelligent, they're right on the doorstep of eugenics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_planning_...

Looket

654 posts

59 months

Thursday 24th January
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midenginedcoupe said:
Dindoit said:
Teddy Lop said:
Drop the condescension, you're only impressing yourself, and start reading a little, eugenics is a good place to start - Hitler may have taken it further than us decent people but he was reading from the same hymn sheet.

A lot of what Hitler did domestically isn't what led to WW2 and its a little cynical its used so heavily.
As a hill to die on “Hitler May have taken eugenics further” is possibly the bizarrest I’ve seen on PH. And that’s saying something.
fking hell.

I think it's safe to say I don't know any people, decent or otherwise, who read from the same hymn sheet as Hitler on eugenics.

Here's a hint - if you think you're reading from the same hymn sheet as Hitler, maybe now's the time to take a little step back and reevaluate yourself.
Or perhaps you should stop willfully misrepresenting what he is saying.

It cannot be a surprise to you that eugenics was a fairly mainstream topic not too long ago?

The Swedish Society for Racial Hygiene was established in 1909 with the purpose of 'supporting endeavours for the physical and spiritual health of future generations'. They didn't gain much traction until the 1920s when the 'degeneration danger' became a hot topic in Swedish society - namely the deterioration of the population stock and subsequent poisoning of the social fabric by people of lesser quality having more children than those of good and proper economic, social and cultural backgrounds.

The State Institute of Racial Biology was established in 1922 with the express purpose of obtaining a scientific foundation for racial hygienic measures. This led to the 1934 involuntary sterilisation laws that were mainly aimed at those considered intellectually deficient and therefore at risk of propagating their hereditary condition.

This wasn't really enough though, so in 1941 the laws were tightened; the Minister of Justice at the time noted that it was 'a significant step forward in the direction of decontaminating the Swedish population stock, to liberate it from the propagation of hereditary conditions which lead to the presence of individuals in future generations that are not desirable in a healthy and wholesome population'. The sterilisations were conducted on either eugenic, social or medical grounds. By 1944 85% were conducted for eugenic reasons, and until 1975 when the laws were repealed, 63000 people - many of whom were Roma - had been sterilised.

The Social Democrats formed governments almost uninterruptedly between 1932 to 1976, with the exception of June - September 1936 when the modern day Centre Party was in power. So yes, Hitler was most definitely reading from the same hymn sheet as a lot of other people across the political spectrum and I don't see how this could possibly be a contentious thing to say.

As for Hitler being left wing or not, it’s kind of a moot point in my mind. I put him squarely in the same league as any other murderous, authoritarian ahole. Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Pol Pot, Ceausescu, Stalin, Castro – same st. If, however, you held a gun to my head and asked me to remove any semblance of nuance from my argument then I would have to admit that I would consider Hitler a raging leftie indeed, much like I would consider 99% of modern political parties pinko commies due to their hostility against liberty, self-determination and personal responsibility - which in a black and white world I would perceive as right wing values.


'It would be fun if Sweden with its well-groomed and slum free cities and its unusually uniform and well-balanced population could be populated by our descendants without too violent a dilution by alien population elements even in the future'
- Minister of Development, Ulla Lindström (Socialdemocrat), 1955

Edited by Looket on Thursday 24th January 14:34


Edited by Looket on Thursday 24th January 14:35

Halb

45,876 posts

121 months

Thursday 24th January
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BrassMan said:
By this stage, Hitler is getting close to being a mythical figure.
Just like Trump

HOGEPH

5,032 posts

124 months

Thursday 24th January
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Bloody hell, I'm a lefty!


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ape x

789 posts

15 months

Friday 25th January
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NAZI is the go to word for 'intolerance', which is why people use it against both left and right etc.
Feminazi's for example.... or Anna Sobury

Its not the gassing of the Jews or Hitlers political views, it is his/their intolerance to people who weren't 'Nazi'.

I have called a traffic warden a 'Nazi', i wasn't actually accusing them of War crimes and suspected them to of been a part of gassing 6 million Jews...... I called him a Nazi because he was / is a .

Whole other can of worms though is the Far rights love of the Nazi symbolism like the salute and the flags etc.....

So if someone on the left / right or the far extremes of that re being intolerant then Nazi fits.

If someone is doing a Nazi salute then.....clearly to call them a Nazi is fair play and must give them some personal pride no?

Quick example as a cultural shift, I used to work with some Muslim guys and we were work mates and had plenty of banter. I would say "Alright ISIS calm down" if ever they got worked up or angry about anything, even as daft and moaning about say a traffic jam....
Its mostly just banter. I have been called a Nazi before and my Gran is Jewish!
Act like a get called a Nazi.....so what...move on...banter.




Edited by ape x on Friday 25th January 08:19

PositronicRay

13,874 posts

121 months

Friday 25th January
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ape x said:
NAZI is the go to word for 'intolerance', which is why people use it against both left and right etc.
Feminazi's for example.... or Anna Sobury

Its not the gassing of the Jews or Hitlers political views, it is his/their intolerance to people who weren't 'Nazi'.

I have called a traffic warden a 'Nazi', i wasn't actually accusing them of War crimes and suspected them to of been a part of gassing 6 million Jews...... I called him a Nazi because he was / is a .

Whole other can of worms though is the Far rights love of the Nazi symbolism like the salute and the flags etc.....

So if someone on the left / right or the far extremes of that re being intolerant then Nazi fits.

If someone is doing a Nazi salute then.....clearly to call them a Nazi is fair play and must give them some personal pride no?

Quick example as a cultural shift, I used to work with some Muslim guys and we were work mates and had plenty of banter. I would say "Alright ISIS calm down" if ever they got worked up or angry about anything, even as daft and moaning about say a traffic jam....
Its mostly just banter. I have been called a Nazi before and my Gran is Jewish!
Act like a get called a Nazi.....so what...move on...banter.




Edited by ape x on Friday 25th January 08:19
Bullying is often disguised as banter. Banter's a two way street, as soon as one party feels uncomfortable the line has been crossed.

NormarkSuperswede

168 posts

1 month

Friday 25th January
quotequote all
Only if you are a snowflake. To take offence these days has become the latest "Movement" .If no one is offending you then you are "NO ONE" And everyone needs attention.

Johnnytheboy

17,265 posts

124 months

Friday 25th January
quotequote all
From the other end of the telescope, was Stalin really left-wing?

As soon as Barbarossa kicked off, IIRC he reintroduced old Russian medals/decorations, and started using 'Russia' in propaganda rather then "Soviet Union".

All sounds a bit like rather a nationalist take on socialism to me...

midenginedcoupe

3,983 posts

70 months

Friday 25th January
quotequote all
NormarkSuperswede said:
Only if you are a snowflake. To take offence these days has become the latest "Movement" .If no one is offending you then you are "NO ONE" And everyone needs attention.
No. Just no.