New world order

[PositronicRay]

Electronic virtual borders, algorithms sorting economic, social and political issues.

Could it? Should it? And will it be sooner than we think?

[Eric Mc]

New World Disorder, I would say.

[Randy Winkman]

I liked New Order. Cabaret Voltaire were good too.

[V8 Fettler]

Joy Division were better.

[tangerine_sedge]

V8 Fettler said:

Joy Division were better.

"Well, I've been here and I've been there,
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
I've been to a post-punk postcard fair,
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
Talk to the hands! Talk to the hands!
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
DANCE! DANCE! DANCE! DANCE!
In my Joy Division oven gloves."

[V8 Fettler]

tangerine_sedge said:

"Well, I've been here and I've been there,
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
I've been to a post-punk postcard fair,
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
Talk to the hands! Talk to the hands!
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
DANCE! DANCE! DANCE! DANCE!
In my Joy Division oven gloves."

Bizarrely, these are available to purchase from various outlets.

I still occasionally resurrect my version of the dead fly dance at family celebrations.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

So long as Schpock thinks my 'wardrobe is a goldmine' then I'm not too worried about intrusive data collection and the march of the machines. Unless there has arisen, unbeknownst to me, a sudden insatiable demand for check shirts and old wooly jumpers then my wardrobe is a treasure trove of comfortable, unfashionable junk which wouldn't be accepted at a charity shop.

[Crackie]

tangerine_sedge said:

V8 Fettler said:

Joy Division were better.

"Well, I've been here and I've been there,
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
I've been to a post-punk postcard fair,
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
Talk to the hands! Talk to the hands!
In my Joy Division oven gloves.
DANCE! DANCE! DANCE! DANCE!
In my Joy Division oven gloves."

Love a party with some atmosphere...…..

[Halb]

Happiness, happiness, the greatest gift that I possess

[V8 Fettler]

Hoppiness? Yes please, but not to excess.

[Ratski83]

Has anyone done an algorithm yet to work out if monoculture or multiculturalism is better for a society?

[rodericb]

Ratski83 said:

Has anyone done an algorithm yet to work out if monoculture or multiculturalism is better for a society?

It could be seen that it's too late to stick the multiculturalism genie back in the bottle but some countries (i.e. China) are having a thorough crack at it.

There's probably also no such thing as true multiculturalism as pretty much every society will have conflicting cultural elements within in. I'll blur the lines of culture a bit and say that polygamous marriage is a thing in some cultures (Islamic) but is forbidden in other cultures (western/Christian) and you'll have people from the former living in the latter who have to yield to local law/culture.

Edited by rodericb on Tuesday 22 January 09:24

[andy_s]

'Surveillance Capitalism' is the preferred nomenclature I believe.

[glazbagun]

Ratski83 said:

Has anyone done an algorithm yet to work out if monoculture or multiculturalism is better for a society?

You'd need to define "better". Like anything I'd imagine it would be a sliding scale and have different balance of advantages and problems.

People like people like themselves, but if we were all happy church-going Catholics/Muslims we may never have clawed our way to the stars.

Japan was super monocultural for a long time (still is in many ways) but that didn't help them when the Americans came knocking.

Cyrus the Great built an empire incorporating a ton of religions and cultures- he's the only non-Jew to be called "messiah" in their scriptures- and the Persians seem to have been positively liberal for their era. Their armies faltered against Alexander the Great, but he was a pretty exceptional general.

[anonymous-user]

Joy Division would have been better had they purchased tuners.

[glazbagun]

rodericb said:

There's probably also no such thing as true multiculturalism as pretty much every society will have conflicting cultural elements within in.

Even things like personal space vary between city people and country people. Replace us all with Han Chinese and we'd all end up different in a thousand years as our geography/local history changed us. We are, after all, the same species, so started off monocultural.

I think the internet will be an interesting force in culture, though. Suddenly sexual and class equality, sexuality, dress sense, customs, etc are being freely argued about across a wide part of the world.

Lots of points for conflict, but also much harder to hide other people's way of life.

[PositronicRay]

So no love for a technologically based system, using data statistics and fact? Therefore removing emotion, personal ambition, greed, short-termism and populism from the equation.

[ianrb]

PositronicRay said:

So no love for a technologically based system, using data statistics and fact? Therefore removing emotion, personal ambition, greed, short-termism and populism from the equation.

I'd be quite happy with a system like that. But only if I could write the algorithims!

[crankedup]

V8 Fettler said:

Joy Division were better.

Enjoyed Peter Hook & The Light performance last Autunm, brilliant gig. (Sorry op), back to thread.

[longblackcoat]

crankedup said:

V8 Fettler said:

Joy Division were better.

Enjoyed Peter Hook & The Light performance last Autunm, brilliant gig. (Sorry op), back to thread.

Having seen Joy Division, New Order and PH&TL live, Hooky's current crew are by far the best of the lot. When I saw them, JD were utterly useless - crap sound, Curtis was pissed off with the crowd, Barney's guitar playing was, er, freeform, and the set lasted maybe 40 minutes. New Order - sorry, Barney's voice is just terrible these days, and his in-concert delivery was was never good in the first place. I've seen them live maybe a dozen times, and they're really not what they were

Which brings us to Peter Hook and The Light. OK, he can't deliver lines like Ian Curtis, but Hooky's got his own style and - live at least - he really delivers. I get the fact that the band is effectively a heritage act, but blimey, what an act; an amazing back catalogue and delivered by a proper, hard-working band. They're going to knock out about 50 gigs this year; New Order might manage a handful of festivals.