How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 8)

[FiF]

Vanden Saab said:

B'stard Child said:

WeCumTitVillage said:

Camoradi said:

Unicorns
Crash Out
Cliff Edge
Our future
Our children's futures

There, I've said them all to save anyone else repeating them. They're tired and they really need a rest

If you had added ' cake' you'd be able to string together a post by MrrT

Nope it would have needed the word "Flights" in there to comply

And WTO rules...

You buffoons have all forgotten "buffoons", get a grip.

[andymadmak]

toppstuff said:

Delightful irony that for many people voting Leave was about taking control of our borders.

Except Ireland. Where we don’t a border. Go figure.

Nothing to figure. It's perfectly sensible, given the historical context.

CTA plus the current border arrangements that already deal with the different taxation/duty regimes each side of the border mean no hard border is necessary. Enhancements to systems, yes. Hard border, No.
Why are you struggling to understand this?

[PurpleMoonlight]

crankedup said:

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

No he didn't.

He is criticising the leave leaders who sold a dream without a clue of how to deliver it.

[andymadmak]

PurpleMoonlight said:

crankedup said:

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

No he didn't.

He is criticising the leave leaders who sold a dream without a clue of how to deliver it.

Several had clues, but sadly had no access to the levers and buttons of power to facilitate their delivery...


And as the Baker video shows, even when some access was granted, the illusion of influence was just that, an illusion. May and Robbins (Remainers both) sold the country down the river 12 months ago. (or would have done had chequers not been thwarted)

[bitchstewie]

crankedup said:

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

He really wasn't.

Ask ten leave voters for "their plan" when they voted.

You won't have ten identical plans and the chances are none of them resembled May's plan (as it stands today as it will probably change).

Ergo, you didn't know what you were voting for, chiefly because the people selling the dream didn't tell you, and couldn't deliver it anyway because they aren't the Government.

People are taking great offence at being told facts which is odd.

[xeny]

bhstewie said:

People are taking great offence at being told facts which is odd.

Few people like having it made apparent someone has pulled a fast one on them?

[crankedup]

s2art said:

crankedup said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

why is Tusk deliberately trying to ps off 17.4 million people , firstly condemning them to hell and now saying that nice Mr Corbyn has a good idea.

He didn't condemn them to hell. He condemned the leave leaders.

A CU is a method of resolving the NI/Ireland border issue whether you like it or not.

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

I think you are wrong. He meant May. Listen/watch that Brexit scrutiny meeting with Baker that was posted up. Tusk has been unfairly criticised.

He may have had some particular people in mind but he implicated leave voters, perhaps unwittingly, but that is what he has managed to do. I’m not sure how many of the 17.4 million leave voters follow the brexit negotians closely enough to watch and decipher the ‘Baker’ scrutiny, however you can be fairly sure that plenty would have seen Tusk making his remarks on the major media outlets. Perception is almost everything, he would have been wise to have kept his personal thoughts to himself, imo.

[PurpleMoonlight]

crankedup said:

He may have had some particular people in mind but he implicated leave voters, perhaps unwittingly, but that is what he has managed to do. I’m not sure how many of the 17.4 million leave voters follow the brexit negotians closely enough to watch and decipher the ‘Baker’ scrutiny, however you can be fairly sure that plenty would have seen Tusk making his remarks on the major media outlets. Perception is almost everything, he would have been wise to have kept his personal thoughts to himself, imo.

That's because he has been misrepresented by people with their own agenda.

Seems par for the course with brexit.

[s2art]

crankedup said:

s2art said:

crankedup said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

why is Tusk deliberately trying to ps off 17.4 million people , firstly condemning them to hell and now saying that nice Mr Corbyn has a good idea.

He didn't condemn them to hell. He condemned the leave leaders.

A CU is a method of resolving the NI/Ireland border issue whether you like it or not.

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

I think you are wrong. He meant May. Listen/watch that Brexit scrutiny meeting with Baker that was posted up. Tusk has been unfairly criticised.

He may have had some particular people in mind but he implicated leave voters, perhaps unwittingly, but that is what he has managed to do. I’m not sure how many of the 17.4 million leave voters follow the brexit negotians closely enough to watch and decipher the ‘Baker’ scrutiny, however you can be fairly sure that plenty would have seen Tusk making his remarks on the major media outlets. Perception is almost everything, he would have been wise to have kept his personal thoughts to himself, imo.

Tusk made an FTA offer to DD based upon Canada with pluses such as security co-operation. DD spoke about it at time. They were well on the way to an agreement then May imposed Chequers and killed all the work done up to that point. Leading to several resignations. There is really no doubt that Tusk was referring to May. Remember all the pleading from Tusk and Barnier to get May to tell them what the UK wants?

[crankedup]

xeny said:

bhstewie said:

People are taking great offence at being told facts which is odd.

Few people like having it made apparent someone has pulled a fast one on them?

Very true, it’s how I felt when we were dragged into the so called common market back on the 1970s. Now the remainers don’t like the fact that we have decided to leave the club at our first opportunity.
We are still leaving despite the remainers, from Parliament to Acacia Avenue, having tried thier best to reverse the vote outcome.

[Camoradi]

FiF said:

Vanden Saab said:

B'stard Child said:

WeCumTitVillage said:

Camoradi said:

Unicorns
Crash Out
Cliff Edge
Our future
Our children's futures

There, I've said them all to save anyone else repeating them. They're tired and they really need a rest

If you had added ' cake' you'd be able to string together a post by MrrT

Nope it would have needed the word "Flights" in there to comply

And WTO rules...

You buffoons have all forgotten "buffoons", get a grip.

I also forgot "gammon", speaking of which, I've been on holiday recently and am now a lovely shade of prosciutto*


*European for bacon

[johnxjsc1985]

I think the lesson I have learned is not to let Politicians and Lawyers anywhere near sensitive negotiations. How could two parties with so much in common that have been perfectly aligned for 40 years need so long to come to an agreement.

[crankedup]

PurpleMoonlight said:

crankedup said:

He may have had some particular people in mind but he implicated leave voters, perhaps unwittingly, but that is what he has managed to do. I’m not sure how many of the 17.4 million leave voters follow the brexit negotians closely enough to watch and decipher the ‘Baker’ scrutiny, however you can be fairly sure that plenty would have seen Tusk making his remarks on the major media outlets. Perception is almost everything, he would have been wise to have kept his personal thoughts to himself, imo.

That's because he has been misrepresented by people with their own agenda.

Seems par for the course with brexit.

What own agenda would they be?

[Earthdweller]

alfie2244 said:

toppstuff said:

Delightful irony that for many people voting Leave was about taking control of our borders.

Except Ireland. Where we don’t a border. Go figure.

What part of the world are you reporting from today then?

Narnia I think

[anonymous-user]

johnxjsc1985 said:

I think the lesson I have learned is not to let Politicians and Lawyers anywhere near sensitive negotiations. How could two parties with so much in common that have been perfectly aligned for 40 years need so long to come to an agreement.

In much the way that Scotland and rUK would have fought tooth and nail over the separation agreement had the Scots voted for independence.

[PurpleMoonlight]

s2art said:

Tusk made an FTA offer to DD based upon Canada with pluses such as security co-operation. DD spoke about it at time. They were well on the way to an agreement then May imposed Chequers and killed all the work done up to that point. Leading to several resignations. There is really no doubt that Tusk was referring to May. Remember all the pleading from Tusk and Barnier to get May to tell them what the UK wants?

Davis' boss, May, publicly made it very clear that a Canada style FTA was not sufficient for the UK. We should aim for better. We don't know what was said to him in private.

What did Davis do? Exactly what his boss said she didn't want.

Is it really any surprise she had to step in and take charge?

He then resigns in protest. Well, if he didn't like what he was being instructed to achieve he should have resigned on outset.

Edited by PurpleMoonlight on Friday 8th February 15:14

[anonymous-user]

s2art said:

crankedup said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

why is Tusk deliberately trying to ps off 17.4 million people , firstly condemning them to hell and now saying that nice Mr Corbyn has a good idea.

He didn't condemn them to hell. He condemned the leave leaders.

A CU is a method of resolving the NI/Ireland border issue whether you like it or not.

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

I think you are wrong. He meant May. Listen/watch that Brexit scrutiny meeting with Baker that was posted up. Tusk has been unfairly criticised.

He didn't mean May; that is much is obvious and beyond argument. May did not "promote Brexit" (the words Tusk used).

[s2art]

Greg66 said:

s2art said:

crankedup said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

johnxjsc1985 said:

why is Tusk deliberately trying to ps off 17.4 million people , firstly condemning them to hell and now saying that nice Mr Corbyn has a good idea.

He didn't condemn them to hell. He condemned the leave leaders.

A CU is a method of resolving the NI/Ireland border issue whether you like it or not.

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

I think you are wrong. He meant May. Listen/watch that Brexit scrutiny meeting with Baker that was posted up. Tusk has been unfairly criticised.

He didn't mean May; that is much is obvious and beyond argument. May did not "promote Brexit" (the words Tusk used).

But (say) DD did promote Brexit and Tusk and DD did have a plan. May has been promoting Brexit ever since she ran for leader.

[PurpleMoonlight]

crankedup said:

What own agenda would they be?

Probably to encourage dislike for the EU.

[crankedup]

bhstewie said:

crankedup said:

By saying what he did he is basically suggesting that leave voters didn’t know what they were voting for.This tired worn line was trotted out ad nauseam for years by the remain camp. Suppose he thought it smart and clever to re-jig the line, instead showed himself to be a bigger dick than previously revealed.

He really wasn't.

Ask ten leave voters for "their plan" when they voted.

You won't have ten identical plans and the chances are none of them resembled May's plan (as it stands today as it will probably change).

Ergo, you didn't know what you were voting for, chiefly because the people selling the dream didn't tell you, and couldn't deliver it anyway because they aren't the Government.

People are taking great offence at being told facts which is odd.

Yes foolishly I have cast my vote at virtually all political elections over the past 45 years believing that somehow something that squares with my political beliefs and wishes would be
represented at the higher political level.
As has been stated b various posters previously, of course leave voters have differing thoughts and conclusions as to what outcome will be presented post referendum. I did know that the U.K. would leave the CU and SM which would mean the U.K. would be a stand alone Country making our own rules and regulations.
I expect, or rather demand that my vote being one of the 17.4 million cast to leave the EU is now delivered.