How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 8)
Discussion
toppstuff said:
You assume that all those who did not vote, not will not again. I don’t believe that. The under 25s are pretty pissed off and many wished they had
Well, I’m not convinced Edited by toppstuff on Monday 11th February 09:21
My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
Meanwhile in Ireland Sinn Fein are to table a no confidence motion in the health minister over the scandal of the new hospital in Dublin which is massively overspent
This could collapse the Govt and cause an election
This could collapse the Govt and cause an election
Edited by Earthdweller on Monday 11th February 10:03
Edited by Earthdweller on Monday 11th February 10:05
Earthdweller said:
Well, I’m not convinced
My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
The student vote can be quite engaged. The NUS has been working with many universities to make local voter registration part of the induction process as a new student. My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
Earthdweller said:
Well, I’m not convinced
My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
and another rather typical example is a 24 year old work colleague who was asking me puzzled a day before the vote what the Brexit referendum was all about and was angry when the result came out as "all the Chavs" voted for Brexit.My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
You have indifference and then surface level indignation which might well fade to be replaced with the next issue trending on social media.
Vaud said:
The student vote can be quite engaged. The NUS has been working with many universities to make local voter registration part of the induction process as a new student.
The NUS leaders have always been very politically "engaged". The majority of students? Less so I think. Certainly if my experiences were anything to go by (where beer, sports and girls also featured quite high up the agenda).I'm not convinced there's any evidence to suggest that has changed (the BBC link I posted earlier, whilst not without its flaws, seems to suggest similar).
I don't see this as a bad thing particularly. Life experiences change your attitudes on many topics greatly. And your typical 18yr old has had feck all life experiences by that point.
PositronicRay said:
Earthdweller said:
Well, I’m not convinced
My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it
I find that sad, that she's so uninterested in the world around her. What's her subject? My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it
Murph7355 said:
toppstuff said:
You assume that all those who did vote, not will not again. I don’t believe that. The under 25s are pretty pissed off and many wished they had.
It’s probably irrelevant anyway. I was just responding to the idea that the 17m are somehow the only ones motivated to be unhappy if things don’t crack on. There’s an equal number that are already unhappy that things have gotten this far !
Evidence?It’s probably irrelevant anyway. I was just responding to the idea that the 17m are somehow the only ones motivated to be unhappy if things don’t crack on. There’s an equal number that are already unhappy that things have gotten this far !
This is the dilemma with the referendum. It was split...but not quite right down the middle. This is why May is doing what she's doing. One minute she's frightened to death of losing the Leave voters. Next frightened to death of losing the Remain voters. She needs to accept that she cannot please everyone. No one can. And that includes and especially applies to Labour.
No party will be thanked for going against the referendum result. That was made clear at the last election - the biggest parties didn't dare go near it. The only party that did lost vote share. Sentiment hasn't changed enough to warrant a second vote to see if people have really, honestly, this time changed their minds. If it had, the prospect of a second vote wouldn't have been kicked in the bawbag recently.
Her, and more specifically the Tories', best option now is to ensure the referendum result is enacted properly (and not "in name only", which by definition isn't enacting it). As someone else noted, she or the Tories at large have 3yrs to get on and make some significant progress. I would suggest focussing on the other political areas that have been allowed to slide for the last 2.5yrs whilst also doing whatever is possible to be getting trade deals across the line.
If they can't, then at least they'll have tried (and likely don't deserve to be in power). I'd give Corbyn a single term in power even if they could win a majority (and even if he stands). His policies will take no time at all to be exposed for the guff they are.
Perhaps you had to be there, but it raised a LoL.
Folks are saying, rightly, that whatever happens Brexiteer will dominate politics for some time to come.
The thing that I have been utterly amazed at for the last two years plus, is that there has been virtually zero reflection by Remain on why they actually lost. They've just doubled down on the thick racist pensioners at the seaside / lies / cheating / Russians / misuse of data comfort blankets all wrapped up in constant virtue signalling.
Could aim that criticism at the Democrats in the US too.
If a Remain anti-populist party emerges they have an uphill struggle to be taken seriously.
The thing that I have been utterly amazed at for the last two years plus, is that there has been virtually zero reflection by Remain on why they actually lost. They've just doubled down on the thick racist pensioners at the seaside / lies / cheating / Russians / misuse of data comfort blankets all wrapped up in constant virtue signalling.
Could aim that criticism at the Democrats in the US too.
If a Remain anti-populist party emerges they have an uphill struggle to be taken seriously.
Murph7355 said:
Lidl? Wash your mouth out...furriners. You need to get down to Tesco. Though tbh if you haven't been planning for this for the last 2yrs I think you'll find all the good stuff (my garage is full of Fray Bentos S&K puddings and pies, plus sweetcorn) is gone. You have been planning haven't you? Rather than just gassing with European illuminati?
You may have bought up all the good tinned stuff, but I'm one step ahead. I'm buying up all the tin openers.FiF said:
Must admit was highly amused at something Matt Goodwin said the other day. He likened the situation to a Die Hard movie where Bruce Willis is surrounded by dead bodies and is still under serious fire from the baddies. Willis grabs a dead body and uses it to shield himself and take all the flak. May is the equivalent dead body for the Cons to be ditched first opportunity.
Perhaps you had to be there, but it raised a LoL.
It's by no means the worst analogy used on Brexit. Made me smile too Perhaps you had to be there, but it raised a LoL.
FiF said:
...
The thing that I have been utterly amazed at for the last two years plus, is that there has been virtually zero reflection by Remain on why they actually lost. They've just doubled down on the thick racist pensioners at the seaside / lies / cheating / Russians / misuse of data comfort blankets all wrapped up in constant virtue signalling.
Could aim that criticism at the Democrats in the US too.
If a Remain anti-populist party emerges they have an uphill struggle to be taken seriously.
Totally agree.The thing that I have been utterly amazed at for the last two years plus, is that there has been virtually zero reflection by Remain on why they actually lost. They've just doubled down on the thick racist pensioners at the seaside / lies / cheating / Russians / misuse of data comfort blankets all wrapped up in constant virtue signalling.
Could aim that criticism at the Democrats in the US too.
If a Remain anti-populist party emerges they have an uphill struggle to be taken seriously.
Not just on why they lost though. On why the calls for a referendum built up in the first place and took sufficient prominence to spark an idea in Cameron's (advisors') brains - "split Tory party" is an equally simplistic argument.
The root cause assessment has never been done. And until it is, there can be no proper solution.
B'stard Child said:
youngsyr said:
Still waiting...
I'm not repeating myself - read what I wrote againB'stard Child said:
youngsyr said:
B'stard Child said:
youngsyr said:
Oh, the trusty old "it's all just a joke" gambit. When all else fails, just claim you weren't being serious.
Or do you actually have anything to add to the discussion?
Will it make any difference to what happens?Or do you actually have anything to add to the discussion?
Cos if you think your efforts are changing opinions or converting people then again I have to state that care in the community is not working
In case you missed it, this is a discussion thread about how the EU negotiations will go - insults are explicitly prohibited as per the first post of this thread.
So, if you want to discuss the subject, then let's discuss it. If you don't, fine. But don't come on and throw around "cleverly" veiled insults, it's rude and anti-social.
Earthdweller said:
Well, I’m not convinced
My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
Our 20yr old is at Uni and shares a house with 5 others of the same age.......IIRC between them they are studying economics, business studies, Law and Human geography (not sure about 1 but definitely similar and not arts). all just too young to have voted in the referendum.My 26 year old niece, a teacher, asked me the other day what Brexit meant, as she said she doesn’t really understand it and isn’t particularly bothered about it
Then she got excited telling me about the holiday she’s just come back from and how she has just booked a week in New York later this month at half term
My 22 year old nephew who is just finishing his degree has no interest either .. he likes beer, sport and girls ... and has no interest at all in politics
And to be fair when I speak to friends and colleagues about their kids it’s a similar response I get from them
Yes I suppose their are some that are politically engaged, and not all for remain or Corbyn but the vast majority just aren’t arsed about it
Apparently up until recently none had discussed politics (in particular Brexit) amongst themselves. However, our son tells us that when the subject came up (probably booze involved) all but one was pro Brexit!!!!!!!! None had raised it previously for fear of being singled out in an establishment that is continually indoctrinating them that the the "EU is good and Brexit is bad"....no doubt it this will get shouted down as a worthless, unproven, anecdote but perhaps the "silent" youngsters may be the real key in future GE's?
Murph7355 said:
The root cause assessment has never been done. And until it is, there can be no proper solution.
Actually, having seen the talk by Dominic Cummings, I'd say some people have done the assessment - and the problem is that none of our current parties are capable of representing the set of opinions that he tapped into. Our system is still essentially Left vs Right, when - as he put it - many people can simultaneously hold both quite left wing and right wing views. That's reflected in the disconnect between metropolitan Labour supporters and those 'out in the sticks', and also the splits in the Tory party over Brexit. Then you look at the parties, and none of them really represent the aspiring small business class that drives a lot of this country.Tuna said:
Murph7355 said:
The root cause assessment has never been done. And until it is, there can be no proper solution.
Actually, having seen the talk by Dominic Cummings, I'd say some people have done the assessment - and the problem is that none of our current parties are capable of representing the set of opinions that he tapped into. Our system is still essentially Left vs Right, when - as he put it - many people can simultaneously hold both quite left wing and right wing views. That's reflected in the disconnect between metropolitan Labour supporters and those 'out in the sticks', and also the splits in the Tory party over Brexit. Then you look at the parties, and none of them really represent the aspiring small business class that drives a lot of this country.UK GDP growth down in Q4 18:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy/...
Forecast shows further downward trend for Q1 19:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-gr...
Euro area heading for recession in 2019:
https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy/...
Forecast shows further downward trend for Q1 19:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-gr...
Euro area heading for recession in 2019:
https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth
Elysium said:
UK GDP growth down in Q4 18:
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy/...
Forecast shows further downward trend for Q1 19:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-gr...
Euro area heading for recession in 2019:
https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth
The UK report pretty much solely focuses on Brexit as the cause, with a small mention of a slowdown across the major economies globally. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-economy/...
Forecast shows further downward trend for Q1 19:
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/gdp-gr...
Euro area heading for recession in 2019:
https://tradingeconomics.com/euro-area/gdp-growth
The Eurozone figures are the same (average), yet completely different narrative...
FiF said:
The thing that I have been utterly amazed at for the last two years plus, is that there has been virtually zero reflection by Remain on why they actually lost. They've just doubled down on the thick racist pensioners at the seaside / lies / cheating / Russians / misuse of data comfort blankets all wrapped up in constant virtue signalling.
You missed out the word "snowflake".Nothing I've seen in the last two years has changed my mind. The economy has slowed, the major manufactures are bricking it, banks have been moving huge amounts of assets out, the government is on its knees. Meanwhile EU immigration is down but non-EU immigration is up. All of this completely predictable.
But when I look at Brexiteers's attitudes all I see is even angrier people blaming absolutely everyone but themselves for the mess.
How ironic.....
AC43 said:
FiF said:
The thing that I have been utterly amazed at for the last two years plus, is that there has been virtually zero reflection by Remain on why they actually lost. They've just doubled down on the thick racist pensioners at the seaside / lies / cheating / Russians / misuse of data comfort blankets all wrapped up in constant virtue signalling.
You missed out the word "snowflake".Nothing I've seen in the last two years has changed my mind. The economy has slowed, the major manufactures are bricking it, banks have been moving huge amounts of assets out, the government is on its knees. Meanwhile EU immigration is down but non-EU immigration is up. All of this completely predictable.
But when I look at Brexiteers's attitudes all I see is even angrier people blaming absolutely everyone but themselves for the mess.
How ironic.....
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff